Hang on a minute, I post facts and you say I am taking the pi$$. Get a grip.

So how will any young NZW guy coming over here manage with the work visa?
We already have one in Gelling and his visa situation is a mare.
The NZW younger players are of no use to us whatsoever.
The only ones we can use will be those who are good enough to play first team every week. I'm not sure that's the kind of link NZW may be thinking about.
That's of course if there is a link!

It's a fact that those players you listed have all left since 2010. It is NOT fact that their departures amount to the disastrous picture that you are trying to paint, or that they could all have been avoided had someone with more nous been in charge.

Rabbiting on about 15+ players leaving is a melodramatic soundbite. It also ignores the other FACT - that we still have a very good side, the majority of whom are young and eager to prove themselves instead of old and looking for reasons to go home.

I don't doubt we are a good side and I am pleased we are top of the league.

However, if you care to go back to my post, you will see that someone asked how many players had left since 2010 and I answered the question factually. I did not add any comments that were negative. My only comments were factual. I therefore find your remarks inappropriate.

The problem isn't the 15+ lads that have left but that if they keep leaving at that rate it will catch up with us.

There are only so many years we can see 4 or 5 players walk out the door before it effects us. Our major attacking threats are Tomkins, Charnley and Richards and 2 out of those 3 won't be here next year.

If anyone thinks linking up with a league who constantly talks down SL, is blatantly arrogant saying 'unless players play in the NRL they are more than useless', we can't bothered with an international this year, blah blah blah is good then you need your head looking at.
Australia is quite happy to be the rugby version of American football, they don't care about the wider game, they only care about themselves.
As daft as it sounds union has been more respectful to SL than the NRL has of late.
They'd quite happily cherry pick every good player and leave us amateur, they don't care.
If anyone thinks NZW would actually benefit Wigan i think they are the naive ones, tell me again all the benefit you're getting from Saracens, free tickets to watch Joel?

Hasler being blatantly arrogant when they signed Graham, it was obvious how good Ginge was, head and shoulders above anyone in SL, awesome for England yet being talked down when he went over YET who is regarded as the best prop in the NRL at the moment?

The only reason i prefer our players in the NRL is because we don't lose them to the other code.
Look at the British press going all coy over Izzy Folua now, or Sonny Bill a while back yet these guys are ten a penny in our game and still we don't get the recognition we deserve.

NZW will throw big contracts at any Wigan academy lad who they think looks the part and any of their lads who looks the part will never fly as far as Perth in their life unless they're wearing an All Blacks shirt.

And yet Richards is 31 and is not the athlete he was a couple of years ago, so again it feels deceitful to mention him in these terms.

Why don't we wait and see who we replace these guys with before quoting their impending departure as though it's another nail in our coffin?

I'm as dejected as everyone about Sam, and I can't understand why he is being allowed to leave a year early ... it makes no sense to me and is tarnishing the whole season. Yes, it does make it feel as if the revolution that started in 2010 has now ended. But if Sam wasn't leaving, I strongly doubt that the retirement of players like Carmont, Coley and Deacon, the departure for home of players like Richards, the sacking of idiots like Gleeson and Hock and the loss of players who are well past their best like Fielden would be seen as anything more than the normal chopping and changing that goes on as teams develop.

The other website is ridiculously negative about the current administration at Wigan. One clown is even calling for a return of Maurice Lindsay, who was great when there was no salary cap but was so unable to modernise later that he very nearly got us relegated. I think the rest of us - me included - need to man up a bit. Sam is clearly going, if not in 2014, defo in 2015. It's a massive blow. But we've lost great players before. Wigan will still go on, and it's not like we're struggling to get wins.

I agree Richards isn't the force he once was but he's still a huge player for us via his ability with the ball, his goal kicking and his influence. He will be massively hard to replace but not impossible. As for Tomkins he was always going to go but why now? It couldn't be a worse time IMO. We have a couple of 18 year old kids who ideally, could do with another year or two under him before stepping up and in terms of other options to sign and bring in to the club they look very thin on the ground.

I'd like to point out that I'm not simply whinging here and I'm a massive fan of Ian Lenagan, who has transformed this club but I'm simply worried that we can't keep sustaining these losses. We have brilliant kids yet we don't want to get to the point where that is all we have, kids! And kids that keep getting shifted on to be replaced by more kids.

We need to start making these contracts players are signing mean more IMO. At the end of this season I can take the departures of Richards and Tuson, they're out if contract and we had little choice but its a different story with Sam and Mossop. We have them tied up yet they're going!

I have no issue with these lads wanting a test in the NRL, its great for their careers and development but they're under contract at Wigan and we need them still. They should be working around our needs not the other way round.

The timing feels all wrong to me. I hope Lenagan and Wane (if he's here) prove me wrong. They've certainly allayed by fears of 12 months back so far this year.

Mostly at retire age, here because they could not be fitted on the salary cap of Melbourne Storm, crocked, not good enough or in the case of Tommy wanting to play in the NRL.

All replaced by players from our own good production line. As will be the case with the last five if and when they leave.

No player is bigger than the club.

I don't disagree with this.

My previous comments notwithstanding, I feel deeply despondent about the Sam thing. I don't understand why we can't make him see out at least another year of the ringfenced portion of his contract. It's not even as if NZW is the sort of chance he can't afford to miss. Why on Earth he's going there completely baffles me. Even Russell Crowe was bemused by it.

Joe Burgess in for Richards next season. Scored another two tries in U20's this weekend against Warrington. The lad is special.

He scored three.

#
What is a contract in any sport these day's when players and agents seemed to have all the power.

Certainly seems that way sometimes...

A contract being in force is the difference between a club getting a transfer fee and not.
Graham and Eastmond left Saints when their contracts had run out, the club didn't get a fee for either.
Joel, Mossop and Sam are leaving in contract and Wigan will pick up £100,000s.
That's what today's contracts are worth IMO.

Surely needs first team experience under his belt before it can be suggested that he is Pat's replacement for next season. The selections when injuries have hit in our backline suggest that at least Gelling is ahead of him in the pecking order. I find it very doubtful that we'd throw an untested youngster in without ever playing at that level before, hence why we are linked with Tom Briscoe.

Burgess may be a cracker but we can't throw him in as first choice and expect it to work. He hasn't even made his debut yet and to go from a points scoring machine, club legend wingman to an untried kid just won't stack up both from a onfield perspective and a financial one.

With all the injuries in the modern game he'll get his chance anyway as a squad player and if he's good enough he'll take it and make himself first choice.

NZ Warriors have won the U20s competition for the last 3 years IIRC and are pretty dominant at that level with several players stepping up into both the NRL side and the Kiwi side. Granted that may change with their current coach leaving and Stacey Jones coming in, but it won't be a bad thing for some of our younger players to head over there for a season and train/play in that setup.

Are you related to him? Phil Clarke raves on about him and guess what? he's his uncle. From what I've seen of him is an above average player not anywher near the class of Pat Richards

You do realise you're comparing an academy player to a points machine who has been at the club for 8 years? How can you compare the two at all? Give the lad a chance before you make judgements like that. Burgess hasnt even made his debut. Of course Burgess isnt in the class of Richards, hes 18. It doesn't mean he wont be in the future when he gets his opportunity.

The answer to your question is no.
I've seen quite a bit of him, he ripped the old U18's competition apart and broke into the old U20's took his chance and didn't look out of place.

He's tall, deceptively fast and once he breaks the line (which he does often) he's rarely caught. Pretty good defence too which will only get better over time.

Currently on 19 tries in 13 games with two hat-tricks in his last two games.

Yeah - he's definitely only 'above average'.

you're not quite getting the grasp off this whole system of promoting from within are you? Maybe you preferred it 10 years ago when we signed players from the NRL whenever possible and sold off our youngsters. Of course we never won anything but there were plenty big names to put bums on seats. Do you think Richards was at his peak when he broke into the first team in the NRL? If we can get Briscoe then great, otherwise Gelling, Thornley, Burgess and Manfredi give us enough competition to make it very likely that one of them will prove good enough for the spot.

Not even 1 1st team appearance

Well done, at least George Williams got 1 game earlier in the season before someone had a go at him.

The best prop in the world at the moment is George Burgess

Your right Saints didn't get a penny in transfer fees. What they did get is those players available for them for the full duration of their contracts.

Graham was very professional about it and gave his all for the cause right to the end.

We have had players do this also. Like Tommy and Pat is also doing so.

I'd far rather see players see out their deals and move on than be sold for a quick buck. What good is the money? The idea it will be used to train the next Sam T is a bit of a joke because if we unearth another player like that we will sell him as well!

As NickyKiss said the issue is the way it's going the losses aren't sustainable. Players lost early are Joel T, Hock, Mossop and likely to be Sam T. All could be playing for us in 2014 had they not been sold and we'd be a better team for it whereas instead we are vulnerable to the experienced players we have left being injured. Look at the Widnes game and expect more like that if the player drain continues.