I think Fielden, Coley, Riddell. Roberts, Smith, Bailey and O'Loughlin are waaaay above him on the RLFans scapegoat stakes at the moment.

I too haven't seen an arrogance, for me his attitude isn't the issue.

Why would highlighting SRers of the teams we are trying to compete with a bad point? Sure it's all in relation to where we're at to where we want to be in terms of players in every position.

Remember we want to be a winning side to have to match players. Highlighting how he doesn't live up to the standard we are looking for is relevant.

Agreed. I don't think people are looking for a scapegoat, just a better team.

i.e the likes of Mathers etc weren't good enough so we got rid, which makes perfect sense.

Because I can guarantee that those players mentioned are also significantly better than our reserves without even watching them play! Ellis is better than any back rower at the club. Does that mean we get rid of Hock and Lockers too?

That being the case we'd better not even start with the front row. You don't need to start naming props and hookers from the 2 best sides, virtually every club has better than us. IMO Craig Stapleton and Ray Cashmere of Salford would do a job for us at present.

You're nearly getting the point. We need better players. Hock, Lockers in the second row can compete with the best of them.
Haven't you seen how many posts there's been about our front row? we all are pushing for a new one.

The standard is set with the best team, this is why they are the best. We look at the bench mark, as I've done thats what we push for.

How do you justify getting annoyed with DaveO telling you that you are talking rubbish when you post comments like this?

I mentioned arrogance on a pure Rugby basis.

Off the pitch, in person etc could be a different story.

IMO, he thinks his position is safe and would rather work hard in defence and enjoy the life of first team Rugby rather than take it to the next level.

While your ambitions are spot on, I feel you lack a touch of reality!

I don't like how your comparing our players with the players in the best teams in the comp. The key word here is teams, the players you are comparing Hansen with are good players in a good team. There will be players in the squad at Leeds or Saints who paper over the weaknesses of their surrounding players. That is what makes them good teams, as a unit they do not make as many mistakes etc.

How do you know that if you put (for example) JJB into our squad he would not get shown up defensively? In all honesty you don't, the fact is that to win the comp then you have to get the best out of the available players. Is abblett a world beater? Is he in a winning team?

Criticising Hansen is harsh IMO but I can see where your coming from. He was very good for us last season and has shown he knows how to run onto a ball and what amgle to run. Most of his tries come from when he does this and is provided with a decent ball close to the line like when Trent(?) gave him a great ball at Cardiff last season, Trent at Odsal 07 play offs and when Sam gave him that ball against Bradford earlier on this season so he CAN do it. Smith being on form would help him because he will give him good service. Mossop will most likely be pushing for his place next season and if he takes his chance Hansen will have to earn his way back in. As for going on about building a winning side, yes you need top class players but not in all 17 positions, Leeds have Abblett, Stains have Flannery in their back rows who aren't top class but do a job for the team.

Hansen reminds me a bit of Mike Bennett (though not as good

). Everyone thinks he's garbage, yet coaches nearly always pick him.

He's only 23, and whilst I think some of you have gone a bit overboard in the past in praise of his defensive work horse status, he does a decent job for your team and has plenty of scope to improve his game.

The problem here though is you are a Stains fan, and like any other Stains fan have a vested interest in ensuring Wigan are as poor a team as possible.


Therefore your opinions on anything to do with Wigan RL are not only irrelevant, but should be ignored by Wigan fans.

IMO of course..........................

BL is one of the more Knowledgeable and reasoned of the Saints posters on here.

He very rarely takes the p!ss, and is someone whose opinions I for one respect.
He knows Murphy and Boston wee great players and I'll bet he never saw them play.

Thanks for your opinion Rogues. You may go now.

Just lay off the whisky, it's a bit early for it yet.

Never touch it on school nights.

I prefer to state facts about Stains fans and their propensity to hate everything to do with Wigan RL.

You, it would appear are equally as keen to defend them.

I call it as I see it and BL is in general fair, a lot more than many so called fans on here.

Isn't them plural?

It is. Well done.

Thank you.
It's always good to be correct.

What's all this to do with Tim Smith?

Not sure, ask your mate.

Too true

. I don't think he'll ever be good enough to hold down a regular first team spot for you. Hock, O'Loughlin are already better than him, and for me Mossop looks like he'll be a decent strike player from the second row, if it turns out that is the case, then he'll supplement the other 2 far better than Hansen ever will.




Of course, in a similar vein I pretty much ignore what you have to say on a regular basis

Only on video

.

Anyway I'll leave this now lol, bar this [ion topic[/i comment. I don't really follow the NRL, so I'm going off his performances for you lot, but IMO Tim Smith has shown nothing to say that he's any good.

I am not being offensive. It is just my opinion that your suggestions that umpteen players in our sqaud are not good enough for a winning team (Hansen being one) IS rubbish. The salary cap virtually guarantees you will have what you might consider sub standard players.

Players like Hansen are fine. What we are lacking is some truly class players in key positions. Fielden was supposed to be one but isn't. We have a compromise at full back, The new hooker is a disappointment, the half back situation is not sorted out and our 13 is really a 2nd row.

In fact are making compromises or have problems in the key positions of the half backs, full back , loose forward and hooker. And we all know we need at least one top class prop.

In the era of the salary cap it is IMO possible to get those key positions sorted out but Wigan's problem is they have not. But once they are sorted out then you can't expect mega stars elsewhere in the side.

This is where Hansen comes in. With the key positions occupied by class players Hansen would be talked of in the same terms as Mick Cassidy.

It remains to be seen how the younger players will mature but Hansen can hack it on a weekly basis in SL. Last season I am pretty sure he averaged virtually exactly the same tackles per game as Lockers but missed fewer tackles, made fewer errors and gave away fewer penalties in absolute terms never mind average per game than Lockers despite playing 12 more games. He also scored 6 tries to 1 which is virtually double the average of Lockers last season. What does he have to do to prove his worth?

Or is my comparison with Lockers flawed because you don't rate Lockers either?

Dave

I dont want this topic to be all about Hansen when its about Tim Smith. But to take it back to Smith, I believe he is the player that can make Hansen look a far better attacking player than people think.

As has been mentioned earlier Hansen at times runs very clever and very good attacking lines. When Barrett was in the side he utilised this very well and put Hansen through the gap. An example of this is Hansen's try in the 31-30 playoff win at Odsal. Barrett had the quality to do that and since he has left no one really looks to do this, except Tim Smith.

There has been times this season when we have seen what Hansen is capable of in attack and another example of this is Bradford at home.

Whether Hansen wants to get involved more or wants to improve further, is another question but I dont think anyone can question his attitude or commitment. If we worked on this then Hansen could quite easily be like JJB.

I rememeber JJB being a very average player in his early days at Leeds and wondering how the hell he had got a place in their squad but as their team improved so did he to the point that he's become a huge player for them who sets the pace of games for them through his sheer energy and workrate.

The same as alot of Wigan youngsters that come through Hansen would improve playing in a better team with better players around him.

I worry about the development of somebody like Sam Tomkins tbh. If all he ever has to play in is an average team he'll struggle to become what he should be. At u21 level he's a superior player to Eastmond at Saints but i can see a time when Eastmond will leave him behind because he's going to be in a great side with a great pack laying a platform for him and protecting him whereas Sam looks to be on his own at times.