If you had read my post properly you would have seen the last bit which said when a big defensive effort was needed which at times in games they are. With him on instead of Hock and Lockers in the other 2nd row spot then our defence would be very sound.



I think you are talking rubbish here IMO. We all know he was top tackler last year and before anyone says it was because he assisted in tackles so many times that is nonsense. I also think people miss the fact he runs some clever lines on attack. For some reason in the space of the off season Hansen has gone from being generally praised to the latest "not good enough" figure pretty much the same as Goulding.



You can examine every player you want but with a salary cap players like Hansen and (if he wasn't probably on a high wage) Bailey do a job. The problem isn't with squad players like Hansen but with the supposed super star players like Fielden, Riddell, TL and Lockers. These are the players who aren't as good as they are cracked up to be. If they were we would have our quota of high earning super star players and players like Hansen would be appreciated for what they are, not slagged off because they are not a clone of Betts in his prime. You are barking up the wrong tree IMO.

Dave

Personally speaking, I know what we have in our reserve/academy set up and Harrison Hansen is not offering as much as some of those players. Both Liam Farrell and Lee Mossop are on course to over take him unless he brings something extra to the side.

Only from those with more opinions than sense!

Spot on, and when/if he does get overtaken then it falls to the player who has been dropped to add something to his game. Which I think he can do. Its something that happens all through sport, if your second best to a certain player then you lose your place.

Some will argue that there are reserves who offer more, but at reserve level, I very much doubt they could perform the same at SL level. Maybe next season/end of this season for Farrell, Mossop isn't far off, and this spell at Barrow could do him the world of good!

The futures bright

If anyone is talking rubbish it's you.

Firstly don't be offensive. It's great you have an opinion on what's best, but it's not ok to speak down to someone by saying something like 'you're talking rubbish' when it's someone's opinion.

I think your attitude with regards to the players and the club is what breeds a poor team, you comments about Hansen reflect this, in opposition my comments show I'm pushing for a winning team, something we are currently a million miles away from.

How does this link to Hansen? You fail to recognise 2 important factors with our current players.

1) It isn't just the poor players who are a problem (i.e Fielden) but players who simply aren't offering enough in every aspect of their game. This is why we don't have a winning team.

You heavily focus on Hansen's defensive work, but failed to recognise my earlier point that I made which was a player gets a 'tackle' for being part of the tackle, this doesn't make a tackle machine as we are lead to believe, this 'Hansen tackle machine tag' takes the attention away from the fact that he offers very little in attack, if you were building a winning team full of winners could you say Hansen is a well rounded great player? No. A tackler is all well and good, but as discussed earlier it is possible to have a tackler who can do lots in attack. Hansen does not!! We need people who offer more, this leads directly to the second point.

2) Hansen's place in the 17 means a potentially better player is missing out on the first team.

You spoke of Hansen's experience over the likes of Flanny or Farrell or Mossop, does experience always equal a better player? No. i.e Sam Tomkins, i.e Shaun Ainscough, Ainscough or Calderwood? But Calderwood has more experience so he must be better-hardly.

If Farrell etc stepped in and offered more in attack and equal in defense, who would you want in your team?

At this point we don't know if Farrell etc will offer more than Hansen, so what do we do to find out (drum role please) we play them in the first team, you never know, giving them a try might actually work!

Salary cap issues.. who's on more money do we think Hansen Flanny Farrell Mossop when he was here? Tough one to call! Hansen.

Seriously, if you want a winning team, you need to field cracking players, Hansen's had 5years to showcase his skills, bout time one of the other lads proved to the world they're better than him.

If you don't cut it, you're out. Lets be winners.

I don't watch the reserves so won't comment other than to ask if the other comments are warrantied or is it simply a case of Higham (gone), Mathers (gone), Goulding (gone) who can we stick the knife into next?

Also, can anyone comfirm that they have experienced this so called arrogance that he has? Personally, I've yet to see it and speak to him more than most on here.

If there are options worth pursuing from the lower ranks them Nobby would be remiss if he isn't checking them out. However, to say he isn't good enough because JJB, Ellis, Wilkin and Gilmour are better is a poor argument IMO.

I think Fielden, Coley, Riddell. Roberts, Smith, Bailey and O'Loughlin are waaaay above him on the RLFans scapegoat stakes at the moment.

I too haven't seen an arrogance, for me his attitude isn't the issue.

Why would highlighting SRers of the teams we are trying to compete with a bad point? Sure it's all in relation to where we're at to where we want to be in terms of players in every position.

Remember we want to be a winning side to have to match players. Highlighting how he doesn't live up to the standard we are looking for is relevant.

Agreed. I don't think people are looking for a scapegoat, just a better team.

i.e the likes of Mathers etc weren't good enough so we got rid, which makes perfect sense.

Because I can guarantee that those players mentioned are also significantly better than our reserves without even watching them play! Ellis is better than any back rower at the club. Does that mean we get rid of Hock and Lockers too?

That being the case we'd better not even start with the front row. You don't need to start naming props and hookers from the 2 best sides, virtually every club has better than us. IMO Craig Stapleton and Ray Cashmere of Salford would do a job for us at present.

You're nearly getting the point. We need better players. Hock, Lockers in the second row can compete with the best of them.
Haven't you seen how many posts there's been about our front row? we all are pushing for a new one.

The standard is set with the best team, this is why they are the best. We look at the bench mark, as I've done thats what we push for.

How do you justify getting annoyed with DaveO telling you that you are talking rubbish when you post comments like this?

I mentioned arrogance on a pure Rugby basis.

Off the pitch, in person etc could be a different story.

IMO, he thinks his position is safe and would rather work hard in defence and enjoy the life of first team Rugby rather than take it to the next level.

While your ambitions are spot on, I feel you lack a touch of reality!

I don't like how your comparing our players with the players in the best teams in the comp. The key word here is teams, the players you are comparing Hansen with are good players in a good team. There will be players in the squad at Leeds or Saints who paper over the weaknesses of their surrounding players. That is what makes them good teams, as a unit they do not make as many mistakes etc.

How do you know that if you put (for example) JJB into our squad he would not get shown up defensively? In all honesty you don't, the fact is that to win the comp then you have to get the best out of the available players. Is abblett a world beater? Is he in a winning team?

Criticising Hansen is harsh IMO but I can see where your coming from. He was very good for us last season and has shown he knows how to run onto a ball and what amgle to run. Most of his tries come from when he does this and is provided with a decent ball close to the line like when Trent(?) gave him a great ball at Cardiff last season, Trent at Odsal 07 play offs and when Sam gave him that ball against Bradford earlier on this season so he CAN do it. Smith being on form would help him because he will give him good service. Mossop will most likely be pushing for his place next season and if he takes his chance Hansen will have to earn his way back in. As for going on about building a winning side, yes you need top class players but not in all 17 positions, Leeds have Abblett, Stains have Flannery in their back rows who aren't top class but do a job for the team.

Hansen reminds me a bit of Mike Bennett (though not as good

). Everyone thinks he's garbage, yet coaches nearly always pick him.

He's only 23, and whilst I think some of you have gone a bit overboard in the past in praise of his defensive work horse status, he does a decent job for your team and has plenty of scope to improve his game.

The problem here though is you are a Stains fan, and like any other Stains fan have a vested interest in ensuring Wigan are as poor a team as possible.


Therefore your opinions on anything to do with Wigan RL are not only irrelevant, but should be ignored by Wigan fans.

IMO of course..........................

BL is one of the more Knowledgeable and reasoned of the Saints posters on here.

He very rarely takes the p!ss, and is someone whose opinions I for one respect.
He knows Murphy and Boston wee great players and I'll bet he never saw them play.

Thanks for your opinion Rogues. You may go now.

Just lay off the whisky, it's a bit early for it yet.

Never touch it on school nights.

I prefer to state facts about Stains fans and their propensity to hate everything to do with Wigan RL.

You, it would appear are equally as keen to defend them.

I call it as I see it and BL is in general fair, a lot more than many so called fans on here.

Isn't them plural?

It is. Well done.