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| Asked to pick his backline for the England team in the Union 6 Nations beginning in February in the Sunday Times, he goes for:
15- Sam Tomkins!!!!!
14-Chris Ashton
13-Ben Foden
12-Owen Farrell
11-Dave Strettle
10-George Ford
9-Ben Youngs
A few points: 1) Good that he hasn't got any influence in RFU any more as he would clearly be raiding League on a regular basis 2) Either he knows something we don't or he hasn't bothered ever reading up about Sam's current contract status 3) If Sam doesn't end up in the England Union squad before the next World Cup in 2015, I'm Jerry Guscott 4) It says a lot that of the 7 names he chooses, 5 of them grew up playing Rugby League....
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| Quote ="Dai Jones"Asked to pick his backline for the England team in the Union 6 Nations beginning in February in the Sunday Times, he goes for:
15- Sam Tomkins!!!!!
14-Chris Ashton
13-Ben Foden
12-Owen Farrell
11-Dave Strettle
10-George Ford
9-Ben Youngs
A few points: 1) Good that he hasn't got any influence in RFU any more as he would clearly be raiding League on a regular basis 2) Either he knows something we don't or he hasn't bothered ever reading up about Sam's current contract status 3) If Sam doesn't end up in the England Union squad before the next World Cup in 2015, I'm Jerry Guscott 4) It says a lot that of the 7 names he chooses, 5 of them grew up playing Rugby League....'"
Maybe he knows far more than we do. I have a horrible feeling that there's a clause in there somewhere about Sam playing the odd game of RU.
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| Exposure. Plus remember we pay him roughly what most union clubs would so if he could play the union internationals and get paid for those too we eliminate the reasons he would leave us to play union full time. I'm all for it providing we get compensated if
He gets injured and he doesn't have to play loads of matches during our season.
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| Im not convinced sam will be here for 3 years. His contract states that he or his agent cannot speak to Union or NRL clubs. Wigan authorised Sam to play for the Barbarians not Sam or his agent. Theres nothing to say that the RFU wont contact Wigan and agree a buy out for Sam from his current contract. A huge transfer fee bankrolled by the RFU and a wage that will be consistent to his current Wigan deal could be the key. If Wigan are contacted and Wigan speak to Union then he is likely to go. He is not in breach of his contract. I think this contract is a smoke screen for maybe the next 12 months to passify the fans for Joel leaving. Maybe im cynical but if Sam is here in 3 years ill bare my ass in the co-op window
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| Disaster for the sport if Sam leaves. I don't believe any player is bigger than this club or bigger than the sport, but what this transfer would represent could spoil the bright future of RL we all hope for.
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| Why is every other thread about Rugby Union these days. WHO CARES!!!!!!!
If I had to pick my Liverpool team to play Villa on Sunday, Lionel Messi, Christiano Ronaldo and Xavi would be it, doesn't mean they will sign for us though!!!!
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| Quote ="Dai Jones"Asked to pick his backline for the England team in the Union 6 Nations beginning in February in the Sunday Times, he goes for:
15- Sam Tomkins!!!!!
14-Chris Ashton
13-Ben Foden
12-Owen Farrell
11-Dave Strettle
10-George Ford
9-Ben Youngs
A few points: 1) Good that he hasn't got any influence in RFU any more as he would clearly be raiding League on a regular basis 2) Either he knows something we don't or he hasn't bothered ever reading up about Sam's current contract status 3) If Sam doesn't end up in the England Union squad before the next World Cup in 2015, I'm Jerry Guscott 4) It says a lot that of the 7 names he chooses, 5 of them grew up playing Rugby League....'"
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| Woodwards's squad choices I believe are a projection of the future, George Ford hardly ever plays for Leicester Tigers as he is only 18 I think in total he has played 2-3 premiership games. To think he would leave out Manu Tuilagi for the up and coming six nations shows the selection is miss quoted or he's been smoking herbal leafs.
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| So even Sir Clive thinks that Tomkins best position is fullback. What do the "Sam for stand off" brigade think of that? (Or is it "fly-half"icon_wink.gif
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| Quote ="sally cinnamon"So even Sir Clive thinks that Tomkins best position is fullback. What do the "Sam for stand off" brigade think of that? (Or is it "fly-half"icon_wink.gif'"
That fact he's picked Ben Foden and Owen Farrell out of their most effective positions shows he has lost it.
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| Quote ="sally cinnamon"So even Sir Clive thinks that Tomkins best position is fullback. What do the "Sam for stand off" brigade think of that? (Or is it "fly-half"icon_wink.gif'"
I think that it is further evidence that Sir Clive is a massive self-publicist and his selection screams 'look at me I'm controversial'.
Sam is a non-starter, Foden's best position is full back (I'm pretty sure he's never played centre) and with just 5 Premiership matches under his belt, Ford is a long way off ready for starting the 6 Nations.
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| Quote ="Bridger"Quote ="sally cinnamon"So even Sir Clive thinks that Tomkins best position is fullback. What do the "Sam for stand off" brigade think of that? (Or is it "fly-half"icon_wink.gif'"
I think that it is further evidence that Sir Clive is a massive self-publicist and his selection screams 'look at me I'm controversial'.
Sam is a non-starter, Foden's best position is full back (I'm pretty sure he's never played centre) and with just 5 Premiership matches under his belt, Ford is a long way off ready for starting the 6 Nations.'"
The crazy thing is Ford is behind Toby Flood by some margin at the Tigers why on earth would he get a call up to the England squad, I have respect for Clive but he can't be serious with this selection for the up and coming six nations.
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| I can't believe he went for Higham over Roby at hooker. Bag of frogs that Woodward lad.
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| Quote ="TrentBarrett"Quote ="Bridger"Quote ="sally cinnamon"So even Sir Clive thinks that Tomkins best position is fullback. What do the "Sam for stand off" brigade think of that? (Or is it "fly-half"icon_wink.gif'"
I think that it is further evidence that Sir Clive is a massive self-publicist and his selection screams 'look at me I'm controversial'.
Sam is a non-starter, Foden's best position is full back (I'm pretty sure he's never played centre) and with just 5 Premiership matches under his belt, Ford is a long way off ready for starting the 6 Nations.'"
The crazy thing is Ford is behind Toby Flood by some margin at the Tigers why on earth would he get a call up to the England squad, I have respect for Clive but he can't be serious with this selection for the up and coming six nations.'"
People say this when ever anyone comes out with something like this. But the same people pan the management for having no vision. Sir Clive realises that it's not about the 6 nations. It's about 2015. They are all young lads who will be around for 2015, the best thing for English rugby union is to get a group of lads who will play together for 4 years. If ford and Farrell are going to play in 2015, they need to be integrated into the team as soon as, and if that means losing a few games over the next year or so then so be it.
The selection of Sam in that team just goes to show how highly he is rated by the other code.
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| Quote ="jimlav"Quote ="TrentBarrett"Quote ="Bridger"Quote ="sally cinnamon"So even Sir Clive thinks that Tomkins best position is fullback. What do the "Sam for stand off" brigade think of that? (Or is it "fly-half"icon_wink.gif'"
I think that it is further evidence that Sir Clive is a massive self-publicist and his selection screams 'look at me I'm controversial'.
Sam is a non-starter, Foden's best position is full back (I'm pretty sure he's never played centre) and with just 5 Premiership matches under his belt, Ford is a long way off ready for starting the 6 Nations.'"
The crazy thing is Ford is behind Toby Flood by some margin at the Tigers why on earth would he get a call up to the England squad, I have respect for Clive but he can't be serious with this selection for the up and coming six nations.'"
People say this when ever anyone comes out with something like this. But the same people pan the management for having no vision. Sir Clive realises that it's not about the 6 nations. It's about 2015. They are all young lads who will be around for 2015, the best thing for English rugby union is to get a group of lads who will play together for 4 years. If ford and Farrell are going to play in 2015, they need to be integrated into the team as soon as, and if that means losing a few games over the next year or so then so be it.
The selection of Sam in that team just goes to show how highly he is rated by the other code.'"
5 games at premiership level and you agree he should be in an international fly half? Flood is 26 and would still be playing at the top of his game come 2015. This is nothing more than sensationalist drivel Sam Tomkins will never play in the Six Nations whilst under contract at Wigan.
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| I don't think that team was 100% correct but I agree with the ideas behind it. In the long run I also think ford will be a far better player than flood. Cipriani is a better option than flood. Flood is never going to be a top level fly half. We need to think what is the team that can win the world cup in 2015, not what team can win the 2012 six nations.
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| Quote ="jimlav"I don't think that team was 100% correct but I agree with the ideas behind it. In the long run I also think ford will be a far better player than flood. Cipriani is a better option than flood. Flood is never going to be a top level fly half. We need to think what is the team that can win the world cup in 2015, not what team can win the 2012 six nations.'"
If your talking about future fly halves it would be Owen Farrell before any one else, and Cipriani he's had one good game at international level the guys a liability Flood is far more the complete fly half than both him and Farrell currently.
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| Maybe - and I doubt anyone has thought of this - that it's not necessarily a prerequisite to play that sport full time in order to be picked for your national side?
Maybe Sam IS free to be picked to play for England RU, despite plying his trade in RL.
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| Quote ="ROBINSON"Maybe - and I doubt anyone has thought of this - that it's not necessarily a prerequisite to play that sport full time in order to be picked for your national side?
Maybe Sam IS free to be picked to play for England RU, despite plying his trade in RL.'"
Do you honestly believe Sam would be allowed to play on Saturday 4 February for England RU in the six nations when Wigan have a game against Huddersfield the next day?
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| Quote ="jimlav"People say this when ever anyone comes out with something like this. But the same people pan the management for having no vision. Sir Clive realises that it's not about the 6 nations. It's about 2015. They are all young lads who will be around for 2015, the best thing for English rugby union is to get a group of lads who will play together for 4 years. If ford and Farrell are going to play in 2015, they need to be integrated into the team as soon as, and if that means losing a few games over the next year or so then so be it.
The selection of Sam in that team just goes to show h ow highly he is rated by the other code.'"
So do you think our Four Nations 6, 7, 9 & 13 should have been O'Brien, Powell, Milner and Laithwaite?
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| Quote ="Bridger"Quote ="jimlav"People say this when ever anyone comes out with something like this. But the same people pan the management for having no vision. Sir Clive realises that it's not about the 6 nations. It's about 2015. They are all young lads who will be around for 2015, the best thing for English rugby union is to get a group of lads who will play together for 4 years. If ford and Farrell are going to play in 2015, they need to be integrated into the team as soon as, and if that means losing a few games over the next year or so then so be it.
The selection of Sam in that team just goes to show h ow highly he is rated by the other code.'"
So do you think our Four Nations 6, 7, 9 & 13 should have been O'Brien, Powell, Milner and Laithwaite?'"
I agree with this point, you picked a team to WIN games full stop, developing a team comes with time and a player should only be selected when they are ready and good enough!
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| Quote ="TrentBarrett"Quote ="ROBINSON"Maybe - and I doubt anyone has thought of this - that it's not necessarily a prerequisite to play that sport full time in order to be picked for your national side?
Maybe Sam IS free to be picked to play for England RU, despite plying his trade in RL.'"
Do you honestly believe Sam would be allowed to play on Saturday 4 February for England RU in the six nations when Wigan have a game against Huddersfield the next day?'"
Why not if he and Wigan make money out of it?
Not saying it's right - just that it's possible.
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| Quote ="TrentBarrett"Quote ="Bridger"Quote ="jimlav"People say this when ever anyone comes out with something like this. But the same people pan the management for having no vision. Sir Clive realises that it's not about the 6 nations. It's about 2015. They are all young lads who will be around for 2015, the best thing for English rugby union is to get a group of lads who will play together for 4 years. If ford and Farrell are going to play in 2015, they need to be integrated into the team as soon as, and if that means losing a few games over the next year or so then so be it.
The selection of Sam in that team just goes to show h ow highly he is rated by the other code.'"
So do you think our Four Nations 6, 7, 9 & 13 should have been O'Brien, Powell, Milner and Laithwaite?'"
I agree with this point, you picked a team to WIN games full stop, developing a team comes with time and a player should only be selected when they are ready and good enough!'"
Well New Zealand took the same steps in building towards a world cup many years ago, and look how that has worked out. Australia have already started building towards the next WC with o'Connor being played at 10. Wales were already building towards 2015 before this world cup, it just so happened that they played better than even themselves could have imagined.
This has been the problem with English rugby for far to long now. We want to win each match with no progression towards the next world cup. We have the chance to get something in motion for the next WC with forwards like Hartley, laws, marler, corbisiaro, Gaskell and Matt Mullen. Add to that young backs like youngs, goode, Farrell, Manu tailagi, Ashton and Simpson.
We also have quite a few players who are young enough to be around for a long time with a number of caps already like Haskell, croft, cole and wood.
But now is the time that we have to figure out the direction we are going, with respect to style of play and personnel.
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| Quote ="jimlav"Quote ="TrentBarrett"Quote ="Bridger"Quote ="jimlav"People say this when ever anyone comes out with something like this. But the same people pan the management for having no vision. Sir Clive realises that it's not about the 6 nations. It's about 2015. They are all young lads who will be around for 2015, the best thing for English rugby union is to get a group of lads who will play together for 4 years. If ford and Farrell are going to play in 2015, they need to be integrated into the team as soon as, and if that means losing a few games over the next year or so then so be it.
The selection of Sam in that team just goes to show h ow highly he is rated by the other code.'"
So do you think our Four Nations 6, 7, 9 & 13 should have been O'Brien, Powell, Milner and Laithwaite?'"
I agree with this point, you picked a team to WIN games full stop, developing a team comes with time and a player should only be selected when they are ready and good enough!'"
Well New Zealand took the same steps in building towards a world cup many years ago, and look how that has worked out. Australia have already started building towards the next WC with o'Connor being played at 10. Wales were already building towards 2015 before this world cup, it just so happened that they played better than even themselves could have imagined.
This has been the problem with English rugby for far to long now. We want to win each match with no progression towards the next world cup. We have the chance to get something in motion for the next WC with forwards like Hartley, laws, marler, corbisiaro, Gaskell and Matt Mullen. Add to that young backs like youngs, goode, Farrell, Manu tailagi, Ashton and Simpson.
We also have quite a few players who are young enough to be around for a long time with a number of caps already like Haskell, croft, cole and wood.
But now is the time that we have to figure out the direction we are going, with respect to style of play and personnel.'"
James O'Connor is young yes but he's been an international for a few years now and was good enough to play at the time of his first cap, Ford is not even deemed ready for a premiership start never mind an England cap!
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| People that think Sam Tomkins' contract concerning the not talking to RU/NRL clubs is anything more than a gentleman's agreement are deluded.
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