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| Quote ="Jo Jumbuck"And this is just a straight contradiction in terms, " Anyone can come and hear it " but " they don't want everything in the public domain" If there is logic in that it escapes me.'"
It means, that anybody is welcome to come to a meeting and hear what people say but they also trust that some of the more sensitive stuff and personal thoughts are kept away from social media etc.
You wouldn't expect an evening with, say, a famous person to be broadcast to the wider public, imagine if you had paid for the privilege of hearing someone's thoughts and sensitive stuff, you wouldn't then expect everyone to have access to what was said, that's basically what happens, people ask for things not to be broadcast to the wider public, but anyone is able to come and see and hear the speakers.
Some people see themselves as entitled to know everything that goes on in other people's lives just because they are a "fan" of the club, and yet continue to be negative and pull everything and everyone down, that's not aimed at you specifically JJ but just generally.
I wouldn't expect to know everything that happens inside the club and people's personal and private thoughts just because i support the team, that's what a supporters association is for, to all ends and purposes.
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| seems to be abit of them v us mentality going on with the hgsa and those that dont go...not good when its supposed to be for the fans but its been like that since the hgsa started suppose, hgsa members coming on here saying they have inside info but cant say hardly encourages others to join
for what its worth i dont think by going to the meetings you get much more info than what the club/papers already give out anyway..can always read between the lines too
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| Quote ="Durham Giant"Ok let's start with a few recent ones.
The mason saga. How much did that cost the club. I estimated about £250 k
The kopczak saga. £20k
Not getting rid of Nathan brown earlier. Cost. £ ?
Getting rid of Bodgy. Cost ?
Changing the training programme and. Losing Greg Brown. How much more would it have cost to keep him £10 or 20 K. If you and other posters say we were so unfit we lost games then this season the cost financially has been huge.
Going into a season with a small squad and losing Robbo when it was clear he was at best a huge huge risk. Cost £ incalculable.
The Connor saga. Whether we want to keep him or not it was poorly handled.
All of these I would say are factual problems.
Others are harder to quantify. Around marketing, decision making, recruitment.
If you look at stones comments and you as a loyal supporter will believe everything the club say, then we are too soft, too fat, not mentally tough enough, with the wrong squad.
Whoever is responsible for everyone of the above things I. Can guarantee it is not the fans and the people of Huddersfield who are to blame Unlike what the club and loyal supporters try to lead us to believe'"
Again, things could have been handled better in some cases, and in some cases it does appear that we have "bodged" up, but again, that is just your opinion that the club messed up, for all we know the things you mention could have been solutions to bigger problems, for all we know, some of the things you mention could have been out of our hands? we don't know, we aren't told, and we don't really have a right to know, it's speculation and opinion as to who did or didn't do what.
I don't believe everything the club says, i have my own opinions and beliefs, i support the team and the club by buying season tickets,merchandise , which has been generally poor fayre!,and raising money for junior development via the HGSA. If i feel something isn't been done right or aren't happy with some aspect i will say so, but it just seems that too many people are looking for a blame for everything rather than support the club.
We've had a poor season but it's over now, as supporters, we need to back the coaches, the players and the club, not pull them apart at every opportunity.
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| Quote ="brearley84"seems to be abit of them v us mentality going on with the hgsa and those that dont go...not good when its supposed to be for the fans but its been like that since the hgsa started suppose, hgsa members coming on here saying they have inside info but cant say
hardly encourages others to join
for what its worth i dont think by going to the meetings you get much more info than what the club/papers already give out anyway..can always read between the lines too'"
As i've said, anyone is allowed to join the SA and contribute and question people and hear their thoughts, it's not a select club at all, there is no "info" for anyone to hide. and if people aren't encouraged to join so they too can have access to officials, staff, players, guests etc then that just shows the mentality of some fans i suppose.
Far easier to sit and moan and bitch, and listen to,and start rumours and presume things, ratherr than the hear it from the horses mouths etc.
I give up, a supporters association was set up with the aim of providing a link between the club and the supporters due to lack of PR etc, yet same supporters moan and whine about that, rather than being proactive and trying to help the club.
I hope you all have a good off season,although some people will still find something to moan about.
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| Quote ="brearley84"seems to be abit of them v us mentality going on with the hgsa and those that dont go...not good when its supposed to be for the fans but its been like that since the hgsa started suppose, hgsa members coming on here saying they have inside info but cant say
hardly encourages others to join
for what its worth i dont think by going to the meetings you get much more info than what the club/papers already give out anyway..can always read between the lines too'"
Brearley I'm a member but due to other commitments I can rarely attend meetings. I do go when I can which is not often! I can understand some of the members having an us and them attitude TBH because they give up their time and effort to try to improve the club and seem to get little reward for their efforts!
"Hate is not the opposite of love- apathy is"
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| First off, and without wanting to sound patronising - fair play to everyone for 'keeping it clean' in what is clearly an emotive issue for some. I have a couple of points:
With respect to removing people who are under-performing in their roles at the club; I think Durham has detailed a pretty conclusive and damning list there. Would anyone disagree? Some people would have resigned with that Portfolio of screw ups!! For the record, I'm sure Thewlis is a nice guy etc etc. But in my humble opinion, his record in his role kind of speaks for itself.
In reference to meast's comment Quote people ask for things not to be broadcast to the wider public, but anyone is able to come and see and hear the speakers'"
I refer people to my earlier post. If a professional organisation have points they do not want the public to know, THEY SHOULD NOT AIR THEM. And I question the motivation in airing these comments and then asking members of the HGSA not to discuss them outside. Think about it.
I'll probably step out now because I'll just be reiterating these points again whilst others reiterate that the club is Ken's train set and that the HGSA is not a clandestine meeting (which I accept). But those 2 points will still remain unaddressed.
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| Quote ="jools"We have what we have. It's kens club and he will do as he sees fit if that's wrong then He also has to suffer the consequences - mostly in his pocket. We don't have volunteers queuing up to put their time, expertise and money into the club.
We don't even have many supporters interested enough to join the supporters association and contribute- join and ask the questions you want answering.
The blame is on the board- and yes they have made some almighty cockups- but ken can't do it alone and without him and those others Supporting him there wouldn't be s club. We leave it all up to them then moan when we don't like the outcome.
Look at the way KR supporters have rallied round their club- only 5% took an offered discount- that wouldn't happen at hudds because we moan and complain but aren't willing to do a thing to help change the things we complain about.
The club have asked for support many times- once such time I believe Daz was the only person who put himself forward. There's an apathy from outside the club also- instead of coming on a forum and moaning about what we do badly you should contact the club and ask what you could do to help improve things. Durham did that, but when the club wouldn't or couldn't take on board some of his ideas he took his bat and ball home and he's done nothing but moan about them since. The HGSA was set up just after to try to get supporters to contribute their thoughts in a cordinates way- people can't be bothered to join for a fiver a year....'"
Thanks for your response jools, i feel you have just reinforces what i have been saying. You seem to be saying that basically the club is going nowhere because , We dont have lots of people volunteering their time besides their season ticket money, They haven't shunned any discounts in the way HKR fans have, The club have asked for support many times "quote " whilst paying people to run the club. So what we are left with is a muti-million pound business that is struggling along because it doesn't get enough volunteer help from the fans who are prepared to put more money into the club , Well there's a surprise, Once again It's not the baffling and bungling decisions made by the people running the club that is the whole problem, It's the lack of effort from the fans.
99% of fans , are just that, They pay their season ticket money or gate money and all they want is to watch a good match, They don't want to be blamed for the mess inside the club, I keep trying to tell people , If the corner shop fails, You don't blame the customer, you find out what you are doing wrong, If that turns out to be the staff, you get staff that do it right.
You say i should ring the club and ask what i could do to help, I have been there in the past jools, i have sponsored players i have taken ad space in Programs, I have done my bit, That was at a time when the club was really in need and the people who were running it then were putting far more on the line than i was.
What we have now is something very different, we have people running the club ( probably very well paid ) who are taking the club nowhere, It is as you say Mr Davy's club he can do as he wants, and as you also say, he will suffer the consequences, as will the fans, but at least they can just stop going, ( which they are doing) and for which they will ultimately get vilified for by some. If Mr Davy is happy with things, who are we to bother.
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| No- the club is going nowhere because people moan about and think because they pay to turn up that should give them a say in how it's run- without actually knowing how it IS run.
That's fine- if people don't want to get involved they don't have to- but don't then moan when it isn't being done the way you want!
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| This thread is depressing
Too many people being deliberately insulted and upset and comments
The club at times seem distant from the fans
HGSA bridges that gap, all is needed is a fiver subs and to go to meetings, but apparently that's not enough...you want it spoon feeding
Have mistakes been made? Of course, but we still have a super league club to support, will mistakes be made in future? Almost certainly, but it's going to do no good to argue with each other about it, not until we're directors of the club or significant investors
I wonder what would have happened if KD had given Tony Smith the money he wanted - i suspect he's spent it in spades since then
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| Quote ="jools"No- the club is going nowhere because people moan about and think because they pay to turn up that should give them a say in how it's run- without actually knowing how it IS run.
That's fine- if people don't want to get involved they don't have to- but don't then moan when it isn't being done the way you want!'"
Well at least we have reached agreement on something jools. We both agree the club is going nowhere, You think It's because of moaning fans, I think It's because some people aren't up to the job. Progress of a sort.
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| Quote ="meast"It means, that anybody is welcome to come to a meeting and hear what people say but they also trust that some of the more sensitive stuff and personal thoughts are kept away from social media etc.
You wouldn't expect an evening with, say, a famous person to be broadcast to the wider public, imagine if you had paid for the privilege of hearing someone's thoughts and sensitive stuff, you wouldn't then expect everyone to have access to what was said, that's basically what happens, people ask for things not to be broadcast to the wider public, but anyone is able to come and see and hear the speakers.
n is for, to all ends and purposes.'"
Fair enough meast, I do understand what you are trying to say, I have to say it still makes no sense to me whatever, except that as you say, I couldn't expect to hear the stuff that other people had payed to hear, for free.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Some people see themselves as entitled to know everything that goes on in other people's lives just because they are a "fan" of the club, and yet continue to be negative and pull everything and everyone down, that's not aimed at you specifically JJ but just generally.
I wouldn't expect to know everything that happens inside the club and people's personal and private thoughts just because i support the team,
__________________________________________________________________________________________
I have no idea what this section is about at all. I know it is not " aimed at me specifically " although i am the only person you mention in it.
I am interested to hear why you class people as bitching whining moaners because they post their opinions on the forum.
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Quote ="brearley84"is connor still going?! last statement from the club was from thewlis saying their would be hell on if it went ahead or to words of that affect ... gone quiet
'"
Still going Brearley
www.hullfc.com/news/2016-10-08-p ... ake-connor
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Quote ="brearley84"is connor still going?! last statement from the club was from thewlis saying their would be hell on if it went ahead or to words of that affect ... gone quiet
'"
Still going Brearley
www.hullfc.com/news/2016-10-08-p ... ake-connor
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| then heres a scenario to give all posters in this argument food for thought............
A newcomer applies to become a member and submits his form and a fiver
As one more on the membership roster, he lives locally , has suitable credentials and is enthusiastically "welcomed on board"
He then regularly attends the regular question and answer sessions , and regularly plays golf /enjoys a drink/was best man(?) and is a close friend of or actually is an employee of the rugby league press or media ...................?
Hypothetical scenario I know, but bearing in mind todays press not totally unimagineable!
Playing devils advocate for a moment, it occurs to me , that,despite every effort to maintain close relations with our club fan base (which would be highly commendable in a perfect world ), the club , management and Ken would be very naive to allow sensitive / confidential information to be disclosed to all and sundry , and even press releases will be carefully edited and worded ( do you agree / or not - depending on your particular viewpoint.)..........?
Answers (on a postcard to)................
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| Im a little lost as to what this has to do with Stone or coaching or am i missing something?
Is there a topic hiding somewhere titled fans getting on each others t*ts that has all our Ricks coaching abilities been discussed and the two have got mixed up?
On a brighter note looking forward to next season and getting my season ticket and hopefully see some movement in and out of the club to freshen things up
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Yes Jake is deffo still going.
I pay my £5 to the HGSA but always seem to have other commitments when the meetings are on so don't get to hear whats said, but I do know the facts re Jake Connor.
Jake signed a contract with Hull FC while Baloo was here as Jake had been told he was not wanted by Baloo. Jake signed what he believed was a pre contract with FC and thought he would be signing the full contract after his birthday, this month. Baloo left and Jake actually signed a contract with the Giants to stay with us. When this was registered with the RFL we were informed that he had a contract with FC already in place. The Giants contacted FC who said they wanted a transfer fee to release Jake from the contract which we refused, don't blame the club why should we pay a fee for a player who has come through our academy? I don't know how the hell that contract worked but it's so obviously a loop hole which needs closing to stop clubs from being ripped off like we were.
So as it stands Jake is looking forward to the next stage of his career and playing for FC but is also genuinely sad to be leaving the Giants.
Now why couldn't the club come out with these facts? We do seem to be a bit lax when it comes to communication with the fans.
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Yes Jake is deffo still going.
I pay my £5 to the HGSA but always seem to have other commitments when the meetings are on so don't get to hear whats said, but I do know the facts re Jake Connor.
Jake signed a contract with Hull FC while Baloo was here as Jake had been told he was not wanted by Baloo. Jake signed what he believed was a pre contract with FC and thought he would be signing the full contract after his birthday, this month. Baloo left and Jake actually signed a contract with the Giants to stay with us. When this was registered with the RFL we were informed that he had a contract with FC already in place. The Giants contacted FC who said they wanted a transfer fee to release Jake from the contract which we refused, don't blame the club why should we pay a fee for a player who has come through our academy? I don't know how the hell that contract worked but it's so obviously a loop hole which needs closing to stop clubs from being ripped off like we were.
So as it stands Jake is looking forward to the next stage of his career and playing for FC but is also genuinely sad to be leaving the Giants.
Now why couldn't the club come out with these facts? We do seem to be a bit lax when it comes to communication with the fans.
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| Quote ="raceman"Yes Jake is deffo still going.
I pay my £5 to the HGSA but always seem to have other commitments when the meetings are on so don't get to hear whats said, but I do know the facts re Jake Connor.
Jake signed a contract with Hull FC while Baloo was here as Jake had been told he was not wanted by Baloo. Jake signed what he believed was a pre contract with FC and thought he would be signing the full contract after his birthday, this month. Baloo left and Jake actually signed a contract with the Giants to stay with us. When this was registered with the RFL we were informed that he had a contract with FC already in place. The Giants contacted FC who said they wanted a transfer fee to release Jake from the contract which we refused, don't blame the club why should we pay a fee for a player who has come through our academy? I don't know how the hell that contract worked but it's so obviously a loop hole which needs closing to stop clubs from being ripped off like we were.
So as it stands Jake is looking forward to the next stage of his career and playing for FC but is also genuinely sad to be leaving the Giants.
Now why couldn't the club come out with these facts? We do seem to be a bit lax when it comes to communication with the fans.'"
Two reasons why the club did not come out of the facts neither is prticualrly positive in my view.
If Baloo did not want him then that was a coaching decision. It is up to others to determine if that was a mistake or not. Bringing Latne Patrick back and letting Hughes go was a mistake. Was it because of the coach or was it because Wigan wanted Patrick and we demanded a fee. In the end we brought back a player who moved on very quickly. In my view that was a mistake. We could probably have kept Hughes if we had let Patrick go for nothing. They could not say it was Baloos decision at the time because he was under so much pressure and it would have added extra voices to those who said Baloo should go.
Now for those that are bemoaning Connor going are they the same ones who wanted Baloo to stay because either way they are wrong on at least one point.
The second scenario is that although we wanted to keep Connor we thought we could do it on the cheap. Offer him a deal and if he refused and went somewhere else we thought we would be entitled to compensation. In te end the management of Hull FC were a lot cleverer than hours and exploited a loophole which our management had not foreseen. Hence Thelis's bizarre and inncurate rant that if Hull wanted him then they would have to pay us.
The club tell the fans nothing because if they told the truth it would add to those who already raise questions about the management of the club.
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| Quote ="Durham Giant"Two reasons why the club did not come out of the facts neither is prticualrly positive in my view.
If Baloo did not want him then that was a coaching decision. It is up to others to determine if that was a mistake or not. Bringing Latne Patrick back and letting Hughes go was a mistake. Was it because of the coach or was it because Wigan wanted Patrick and we demanded a fee. In the end we brought back a player who moved on very quickly. In my view that was a mistake. We could probably have kept Hughes if we had let Patrick go for nothing. They could not say it was Baloos decision at the time because he was under so much pressure and it would have added extra voices to those who said Baloo should go.
Now for those that are bemoaning Connor going are they the same ones who wanted Baloo to stay because either way they are wrong on at least one point.
The second scenario is that although we wanted to keep Connor we thought we could do it on the cheap. Offer him a deal and if he refused and went somewhere else we thought we would be entitled to compensation. In te end the management of Hull FC were a lot cleverer than hours and exploited a loophole which our management had not foreseen. Hence Thelis's bizarre and inncurate rant that if Hull wanted him then they would have to pay us.
The club tell the fans nothing because if they told the truth it would add to those who already raise questions about the management of the club.'"
How do you work out we could have kept Hughes if we had let Patrick go for nothing? Hughes was OOC at Wigan, Patrick still had a year left.
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| Quote ="jools"How do you work out we could have kept Hughes if we had let Patrick go for nothing? Hughes was OOC at Wigan, Patrick still had a year left.'"
Because Wigan said they wanted to keep him. Shaun Wane said in the press I want to keep him.
But They then said they were not prepared to pay a transfer fee that the Giants were asking. Go and look at the press reports at the time.
Because we would not let Patrick go for free we had less room on the SC.
I said at the time we should not bring back an unhappy player.
But no we brought him back it was clear he did not want to be here, damaged morales so we let him go to Cas on loan for NO MONEY to get rid. That was 3 months into the season when we were struggling with injuries and had little chance to bring anyone of quality in.
If we had let him go at the end of last season we could have done some better planning for the 2016 season.
If we had let Robbo retire when it was clear he was crocked we could have done some better planning for the 2016 season.
THIS IS NOT FOOKING ROCKET SCIENCE IT IS BASIC FOOKING MANAGEMENT DO YOU NOT GET THAT.
SOMETHING OUR CLUB SEEMS INCAPABLE OF DOING.
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| Quote ="Durham Giant"Because Wigan said they wanted to keep him. Shaun Wane said in the press I want to keep him.
But They then said they were not prepared to pay a transfer fee that the Giants were asking. Go and look at the press reports at the time.
Because we would not let Patrick go for free we had less room on the SC.
I said at the time we should not bring back an unhappy player.
But no we brought him back it was clear he did not want to be here, damaged morales so we let him go to Cas on loan for NO MONEY to get rid. That was 3 months into the season when we were struggling with injuries and had little chance to bring anyone of quality in.
If we had let him go at the end of last season we could have done some better planning for the 2016 season.
If we had let Robbo retire when it was clear he was crocked we could have done some better planning for the 2016 season.
THIS IS NOT FOOKING ROCKET SCIENCE IT IS BASIC FOOKING MANAGEMENT DO YOU NOT GET THAT.
SOMETHING OUR CLUB SEEMS INCAPABLE OF DOING.'"
So if we had let a player go for nothing you wouldn't have moaned about that? You would rather Wigan bent us over and smacked our backside and had us as a mug? You've moaned about the wY they handled Connor getting nothing for him but you think Wigan should have been able to walk all over us. Yep that would stand us in good stead in future negotiations....
How do you know cas paid us nothing???? You don't. You are happy to believe the press when it's another club but not when it's us. You don't know what the club agreed with cas, and you do t know the negotiations that were discussed with Wigan either.
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| I never moaned about us gettin nothing for Connor. Personally I don't rate him except as a squad player. Maybe he will prove me wrong.
I moaned about us been to stupid to manage the situation properly
YES I SAID AT THE TIME WITH Patrick we should have got shut, his form had dipped he did not want to be here. Sometimes it is better to cut your losses to move on. If it was a choice of taking a hit on Patrick to get Hughes I would have kissed wanes to seal the deal.
Instead we bring him back when we did not want him and then let him go when it was clear he did not want to play for us.
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| If I remember correctly we wanted to keep Hughes but he wanted to be nearer home for personal family reasons so went over t'other side of the hill.
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| Quote ="raceman"If I remember correctly we wanted to keep Hughes but he wanted to be nearer home for personal family reasons so went over t'other side of the hill.'"
Even if that was the case it does not explain us bring Patrick back and waiting for that to explode in our face
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| Quote ="Durham Giant"Even if that was the case it does not explain us bring Patrick back and waiting for that to explode in our face'"
You have no idea what the situation was with larne- you have no idea if Wigan actually made hudds an offer or whether they refused to pay a fee at all, you don't know whether they wanted him on the cheap or even made larne an offer at all- for all you know they may have made him an offer and he turned it down as it was less than he was on with the Giants! You have no idea whether we got anything for him when he went to cas either. you are saying it was a bad move- when you don't actually know what the move was!!!! It didn't explode in our face did it- it allowed us to move him off our salary cap and get ikahihifo in in his place.
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| Larne didn't want to stay at Wigan, he didn't feel accepted and that he fitted in, he felt like an outsider there, he wanted to come back here as he always felt at home here, Paul Anderson didn't have him in his plans and therefore made him look for another club.
Larne wanted to play here and wanted to get his career back on track but was left with no choice. Shame he was messed about as he was a cracking player for us in the past and still had a lot to offer.
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| Quote ="GIANT DAZ"Larne didn't want to stay at Wigan, he didn't feel accepted and that he fitted in, he felt like an outsider there, he wanted to come back here as he always felt at home here, Paul Anderson didn't have him in his plans and therefore made him look for another club.
Larne wanted to play here and wanted to get his career back on track but was left with no choice. Shame he was messed about as he was a cracking player for us in the past and still had a lot to offer.'"
You seem to know a lot more than Durham does, Daz
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