After tonight enough is enough our once promising season is in tatters and talk of Grand Finals is purely that. Some important questions need to be thought about.

Can we put up with this Nathan Brown farce every year is he staying or going? Are we going to have the same next year. Why dont we get tough do whats right for the club we are at the start of a new 3 yr period either he commits for 2 or we make a change or nxt season will be ruined again

Is Richard Thewlis the right dynamic chief exec to take us forward a number of things point to the answer being no.

Are some of the players really good enough to be winners? When you watched Saints 2nd team defend their line last week you saw a club desperate for success Are our players?

It may sound harsh but the fall has been too dramatic for something not to be wrong in the organisation. The current debacle will not help at all in selling next year and some tough decisions need to be made otherwise pretenders is what we will remain.

To be honest for the return we have got is it worth putting up with the yearly NB farce anymore? Even if we tie him down to a 3-4 year contract he is always gonna be ready to jump ship as soon as his dream job in Oz comes up.

ATEOTD We have won nowt under NB so he on a par with the likes of Jon Sharp trophy wise.

Look at what McGuire has done at Wigan, that team has desire, fire, flair and a will to win second to none.

They are playing fantastic RL and as much as you may dislike them it's hats off to the rugby they are playing, as for Sam Tomkins he is a class above anything else in SL at the moment.

Can we not find a C&G McGuire and Tomkins somewhere?

Sorry to repeat my self, but we are watching a Jon Sharp team [5 drives, etc, see elsewhere.

If there's dissent in the camp then the reason or reasons have to go - whoever it/they is/are. This has now become ridiculous.

can we not try maybe passing to someone who isn't the player next to the guy with the ball........were so one dimensional its laughable and we couls have 20 players on the field and wouldn't look threatening in attack !

After tonight's game [& others this season, centres aren't the problem. We are lacking creativity & leadership on the pitch. Robbo can see the gap, Brough's kicking is 2nd to none, but there's no-one who can direct the play and create that spark.

Well i waited overnight before posting see if it didn't look as bad this morning with my claret and gold 'specs' on.....

It was awful no direction, no energy in the second half three tries conceded outside David Hodgson on the narrowest pitch I have seen for a long time!!!! Touchlines brought in five yards!!!!! No attacking flair !! A ball which had a piece of metal inside it the magnet to which was in Luke Pattens pocket!!!! In the last 12 minutes after going 4pts behind we couldn't even get in and form a scrum to stop the clock !!!

The 'rot' got worse in the second half when David Fa'alago went off for a rest our one effective forward !! I thought Jamie Simpson did ok.. crikey he was on the field an awful long time in an unfamilier position for someone off with injury for so long!! I know we were into a breeze in the 2nd half so why not put the ball on the floor, a grubber kick they call it !!! Even kick it dead and start from the 20 defence formed up... not on half way or kick to the 20/30 and let Patten run 10/20 yards every time!!! Luke Robinson shouldn't have played he did ok but his kicking was 'shocking' as was Kevin Browns!!

The candidates for the 'poor show award' in my opinion are( in no particular order): Daryl Griffin, Eorl Crabtree, Graeme Horne, David Hodgson well ok everyone to varying degrees except for Grix, Jermaine McGillivery, Jamie Simpson, Leroy and bruno who was my man of the match if for nothing other than a committed defensive effort.

Our two 'international' props were a joke neither causing Salford any problem and Eorl running sideways.., larne patrick is going backwards fast on this form !!

Well it cost me £50 last night in fuel and match entry to watch what was basically 20 mins decent rugby from my team and 60 minutes drivel on par with wakefield, Bradford et all !!!!

I have just booked a holiday to Florida on 7th October the day before the grand final cos Grand Finallists we are not !!!!

THE REALLY BAD BIT IS THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF THE PLAYERS ON SHOW LAST NIGHT FOR BETWEEN 3 AND 5 YEARS !!!!!!!!

I have my season ticket for next year i will always go as I have seen many worse times than these but not many perhaps as disappointing !!

Something is drastically wrong... they are either trained out or lacking motivation (even both) which is damning for any professional sportsman and also the team from NB downwards who are training them !! or maybe they just genuinely don't give a 'crap' as it looked in the last 12 minutes at salford last night !! The skill level can't be an excuse as we had it in abundance earlier in the season !!!!!

Nathan Brown, Paul Anderson now is YOUR hour to prove you have got what it takes !!!!!

Trained out? Very much doubt that, the players spend more time on their computers playing COD than anything else. They are always posting on twitter about days off and who is going on COD. This is sometimes midday. When we took a pasting at wigan I think it was they got 4 days off!! How does that work? If I don't do my job properly I get told so and usually do overtime to put it right, I don't get 4 days off!!!!! Sort it out fartown!!

That makes it worse !!

But as I say now is the time we find out about Nathan Brown and Paul Anderson they have three weeks to get it right.... I can't contemplate losing to Harlequins at home but a win against Leeds is a must going into the play offs or it will be a long night at the DW stadium the week after or worse a longer night at the Galpharm against Hul or Castleford !!!

30/40 pts against the Harlequins at home won't prove anything or make it right....

I read all the 'Aussie' posts about his lack of abilty to deliver in the 'business end of the season' but its beginning to look like they were right !!

No calls for a sacking he has done an awful lot right.... but at the end he will be judged on his 1st 13/17 delivering at least a grand final appearence or a challenge cup win before he goes back to Oz otherwise for all the good things he will go down as an under achiever..... as earlier this season we looked to have the 'goods' !!! We blew it big style at 'Cas' our big chance for this season I honestly think the season will fizzle out with an awful lot of head scratching as to why !!

A couple of good posts there, fs61.

A couple of rants more like.

Did you go Jools last night..... and to bradford, wakefield, castleford (twice) and wrexham ?? I did... i analyse business's for a living selling software to improve business processes.

If I was analysing the Giants as a business commercially fantastic !! but on the field badly under performing... yes we are fourth maybe until tonight but we have the resources to be far higher and should be at least guarenteed fourth place. those eight points against the bottom clubs would have put us breathing down warringtons neck for second and five points in front of saints for third with warrington having catalans and wigan to play !! analysis big underachievment !!

So before accusing me of ranting read what I say as with everyone else on here I am entitled to my point of view which is normally well considered hence my first post was written this morning not last night at nearly midnight when I got home from salford!!

Your two posts are knee jerk reactions that suggests no reasoning or just pure blind loyalty which isn't always a good thing, we are all entitled to voice our concerns... if you want to question mine at least add some value to what you write not just its rant cos I can assure you that you wouldn't want to read one of them !!

FS 61
Your post certainly was not a rant, seemed perfectly constructed. I did not go last night but had to endure the game on radio leeds. So would be difficult to blame individual players as its always diificult to get a full picture of the game. But even the radio commentary potrayed the Giants players as being out enthused.
I personally do not think that half of the players are good enough for the Giants to win any silverware at this moment in time. But on paper the team that went on the field last night was supposedly man for man a better team. One world cup winner a former New Zealand international. 5
England internationals from last years tour to Australia and 3 England Knight squad members. So I do believe you have the right to comment on the coaching staffs contribution. I am a big fan of Nathan Browns but now is the time for him and the players to earn their money. Otherwise what started out as a promising season will just evaporate into nothing.

Yes I have been to every single game this season - and sorry if I don't believe that analyzing and selling software makes you an expert. We had a good start to the season and got out of the blocks early- as did London and castleford, and caught a few sides out- the fact is we are not good enough yet. If people expect miracles then they will be disappointed if they are realistic they won't be. Confidence breeds confidence also the opposite is true. The majority of lads are trying and have pride and I'm sure coming on here and reading what fans are putting (and they do- griffin has already been upset by certain comments) really helps get their confidence up! Blind faith - no- the exact opposite it's a game one I choose to follow win or lose. We all have bad days at work, the fact that some on here then make sarcastic comments about what players choose to do when they aren't working is a joke- they are people with ordinary lives, they have things to do outside of their job just like us all.

Hi paulus thanks for that.... as i said in another thread I agree now is the HOUR for NB and PA we have the ability to get to the semi finals... but need to find it again.... and if we don't you have to question the coaching staffs contribution.. not sack them but learn from your mistakes which we don't seem to do as we make them every week these days espeicially last nights last 40 minutes....

The learning is the way we all improve whatever our job and its no different for a rugby league player or coach...

I'm afraid our lot have always been keener to whine than to lavish praise.

The tall and short of it though is that despite all the injuries we still had a squad out there last night that underperformed seriously. They've been nowhere close to what they can play like since Leeds away, we're hearing the same old sound bites about knowing what went wrong and putting it right all the time but the lads still come out lacking fire and intensity. They're too quick to let their heads drop and at times they look like they can't be a4sed.

Being a business analyst is of zero relevance and gives no extra weight to an opinion on RL. ATEOTD it's pretty clear what we need to do and that is to get back to playing like we did in the first half of the season. You know how to do that, feel free to post it on here.

well jools the darryl griffin that cares is going to leeds Rhinos for 25k more a season as he couldn't take being called unprofessional for having a tattoo that got infected before the wakey game.... whether Thewlis calling him unprofessional was right probably not.... but unfortunately true....

I have never ever downed a team where i thought the effort was 100% or even 95% but if you were there last night the last 12 minutes of capitulation to a very average salford team only maybe 4 of them who would have got in our 17 is surely worrying ??

This is a fans site so if the players read it they should accept that the paying public who pay part of their wages are entitled to both an opinion and to state it on here, read the Town message board if you don't believe me cos they don't pull any punches the players wouldn't want to read that....

To answer your question danril.. no i don't as I am not with the players like NB PA et all.....

Your anwser of play like we did earlier in the season is fair comment however its been the answer for many weeks now and with the exception of Hull KR where we improved a bit it hasn't happened and that worries me.....

The players do video analysis NB does analysis on each players game etc etc... so what is being missed ??? The comment over my job was purely as an indicator as to what happens in real life and to what i would expect to be happening at the Giants. But how do you explain the last 12 minutes last night ?? Its NB and PA's job and its gone on for too long either we are not good enough which i could accept but we still keep being told we are potential grand finalists??

We haven't been that for a couple of months.... in fact on the last ten games we are not even top eight contenders and the difference from say may/june when we were to now is the worrying bit

You are right in that we've not even been close to our best for two months. It is certainly a real worry as to what exactly has happened that is so serious that NB seems unable to rectify it. When you look on the pitch at times they don't look like they are trying. The props aren't running with the same venom. We aren't dominating the tackle. We aren't getting on the front foot. We aren't busting tackles or breaking lines. We aren't "working hard for each other" as Nathan would say. Why not?

They have shown what they can do but for some reason it's just not happening. We lack leadership on the pitch.

Danril,

our props are not busting tackles because they are shot, with Mason missing much of the season we only have Eorl & Griff as true props, Larne is an impact prop only not a hard grunt prop, Raleigh, Faalogo, Horne, Kirmond et all are not props. The burden of the 60/70 minute games week after week have left Eorl & Griff shot.

We have rotated centres and back row to keep guys fit for "the business end of the season" and burnt out the heart of our pack while denying ourselves continuity out wide (how many consecutive games have we selected any combination in the backs?).

I don't agree because Eorl and Griff haven't been playing 60-70mins week after week. Larne isn't busting tackles any more either which isn't explained by your theory.

We invariably start like snails, can't catch a ball and end up defending for the first 20mins of each half. That is problem #1 IMO. We start badly and waste energy defending because we cannot complete a set. Our attitude is wrong or we are full of nerves. At the moment it is more likely nerves. We need a bloke on the pitch to guide them. To lead them.

I highlighted a weakness in our props in a post last week i said we needed a big nasty evil prop for next season !! we do and its a shame we can't get him now... Doof was our best forward for me last night as a back rower so why oh why make him a prop ??

On a thread last week someone correctly said we are not getting speed up because we are lining up too flat.. last night with a skinny 10 being played by Childs we should have lined up deeper so the ball receiver was at speed with a chance to break the line... strangely we seem to line up deeper at home.... and play so much better .... how many times away do our forwards get the ball stood still ?? if Luke is going to run across the line we need three deep running forwards to decoy the defence and hit the tackles at speed which is what breaks them

Not recently they haven't but first half of the season they were playing big minutes week in week out - agree about the nerves and leadership though

brown needs to play players in there best positions and stick with it!

ok injuries force changes but at the start of the season we had a near full squad and he was still messing about with the team! all season the team has been unsettled because of this

mr tinkerman and its not working, he opted for the big squad and its back fired.

Heres his tinkering...some bad some not so bad

GRIX - utility player come full back.. worked out well,needs to improve attack coming into the line
LAWRENCE- Centre come wing now second row... for me lawrence is a centre play him there!
CUDJOE - wing, centre, full back , stand off... keep at centre.
GILMOUR - centre, second row... started off a centre now just played whereever needed
ROBINSON- hooker, scrum half .. was scrum half but more success at hooker
FAALOGO - 2nd row ,prop... was supposed to ow be a prop but back at 2nd row
FAIUMU- hooker, 2nd row, prop .... played all over
LUNT - hooker, 2nd row ... revelation at hooker first season then poor last year when changed. back to hooker
RALEIGH - 2nd row ,prop ...not a prop but had to become one
KIRMOND- 2nd row, prop... brown wanted him to be a prop but changed his mind now 2nd row
PATRICK - 2nd row ,prop .
HORNE - prop, 2nd row, centre
MCNALLY - half back..full back
SIMPSON- centre, wing, hooker

its ok to be versatile but too much messing about for me, jack of all trades master of none spring to mind

i think the answer to halifax giants questions are

1 - no brown should commit fully or be replaced

2 - no thewlis is a bad apple in all this for me making quantity signings a issue not quality, and very rigid with wage structure

3- no the current squad has too much of that for me squad men not quality.

not sure if major problem in orginasation, i feel main reason for our fall from grace has been the injury situation which with the average squad fillers leads us to put out average players.