Has anyone else seen this on the guardian? www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/new ... /?ref=mmsp apparently within the next 7-10 years the stadium capacity will be raised to 22-23,000. First stage is to put more corporate hospitality in the north, i personally think they will do this within the next year since boxes are constantly sold out. Second stage is to put a second tier on the south which is seated. Third is to put a hotel in the North East corner linking to the stadium which I imagine will be accompanied by more seats around it. Fourth is the filling in of the rest of the corners etc. Would look pretty decent when completed, although will be very costly to do so and the investment may not pay back very quickly. Whats everyone else's opinions on these plans?

Has anyone else seen this on the guardian? www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/new ... /?ref=mmsp apparently within the next 7-10 years the stadium capacity will be raised to 22-23,000. First stage is to put more corporate hospitality in the north, i personally think they will do this within the next year since boxes are constantly sold out. Second stage is to put a second tier on the south which is seated. Third is to put a hotel in the North East corner linking to the stadium which I imagine will be accompanied by more seats around it. Fourth is the filling in of the rest of the corners etc. Would look pretty decent when completed, although will be very costly to do so and the investment may not pay back very quickly. Whats everyone else's opinions on these plans?

Go for it... Shame that some clubs in RL have not got 10% of Wires ambition..

certainly a good idea if we want to host big games, and the potential to use the stadium for other events such as concerts etc. There is a lot of money to be made in them!

This post is extremely worrying. You have now recently made several comments which are almost 'pro-Warrington,' and they also show that you have a fair bit of common sense.
However I would ask that you return to your original persona as someone who hates anything concerning the Wire, then I can return to my favourite sport of slagging you off.
seriously though, I really do agree with what you are saying. There are currently too many clubs who are just sitting on their backsides waiting for something to turn up. RL needs more clubs to take some real positive action.

Are we taking the Koukash approach of lets talk up a completely unrealistic ambition to get media coverage?

Warrington getting crowds of 20000 odd is about as likely as Salford in the top 4.

There seems to be absolutely no demand for a larger capacity at Wire HQ, however you can't criticize ambition.

when i talked to the stadium manager i did mention about the corners getting filled in and he said that part isn't going to happen for ages as the stadium itself has to provide laws such as an entrance for emergency services to enter through the ground and also because sky need to dump all their in the other corner when they come to. would love to see it bigger but we got to make sure we fill the hj as it is, not just for the big games. we dont want to end up looking like huddersfield haha

you have to have short term, medium term and long term plans in any business. There is nothing in what is being said that isn't achievable with continued hard work and a successful team.

I disagree with you Sally, I think 20K inside the ground for top games IS achievable...but it ain't gonna happen without A LOT of hard work on and off the pitch...and its not going to happen overnight.

AIM HIGH

As the Guardian says it is a ten year plan, particularly in relation to expansion in terms of capacity. That won't happen for some time yet and only if/when demand exists. I can see the extra tier of hospitality happening within the next 18 months or so because there is a waiting list for boxes and I read recently that they are full most days for conferences and businesses, which ties in nicely with the hotel idea.

We are in a very fortunate position to own the stadium, many clubs chose to go down the council owned route and now face all sorts of problems, most notably Hull at the KC. I wouldn't swap the HJ for anything, wonderful asset.

And where are these new fans going to come from? They aren't coming now to watch Morley, Briers, the Monaghans and co when we're three times Challenge Cup winners in four years so I hope there's something pretty special lined up, Thurston, Marshall, Barba etc type players to entice the crowds in if we're aiming for 20,000.

I know how keen people are on here that in the next few years we will have 13 ex Academy lads on the field but the floating voters are not going to come rushing down to the HJ to watch that.

Although maybe if we're fighting to make the top 8 the public might rediscover their appetite for league fixtures again because every game will actually mean something for once rather than just being 6 months of going through the motions before the playoffs.

The borough of Warrington is big enough, plus we already have fans from outside the borough in Cheshire. The market is available. Sadly, Warrington is very much a football town despite our top level sport being RL. The number of people involved in football is massively higher than in RL. Hence us having to sign lots of players from outside Warrington into our Academy.

Massive community engagement, coaching and marketing is required which means investment. Perhaps investment there before investing in the stadium will reap the rewards. Build it and they come has worked to a degree with the HJ originally but it doesn't seem to have done with the corners expansion. In fact it could have been counterproductive as less chance of selling out means less pressure to get a ticket meaning some fans may make late decisions not to bother attending.

So the club needs to get out into the community much, much more than it already does - but that means investment, money the club doesn't really have available, especially after the Sport England cuts.

Maybe the club could come up with some imaginative ticketing schemes that incentivise the fans to do the marketing for them - by encouraging us all to keep on bringing new / non-regular friends and family to the games.

Ticket schemes are not going to get you 20,000 fans unless its Wigan and we can get them to bring loads over (maybe offer them half price if they leave before the end).

I wouldn't try to diminish the work the club does engaging with the community but I think you get diminishing returns with this in terms of being able to attract more fans. If a big programme of investment in the community would have 20,000 through the turnstiles then money wouldn't be a problem, we could borrow it if a lender truly believed it would pay off like that.

I would be impressed if we hold or slightly increase our attendances in the next 5 years or so. It will be a real challenge. I'm sure Bradford had a 10 year plan a decade ago, wanting to redevelop Odsal etc take them to the next level in terms of growth, things didn't quite work out.

Will Tony Smith be here in 5 years time? 10 years time? The balance of power between SL and the NRL has shifted now so the top Aussie coaches aren't coming any more. When TS goes we will more than likely be in the market for an English coach - if we are lucky it will be someone like McNamara or Daryl Powell, if not we might be looking at guys like Iestyn Harris, Jimmy Lowes, Sean Long etc. If the flow of top NRL players to SL has dried up then we will be reliant on the English market for players, albeit if we discover any real gems they will probably go to the NRL.

It is likely to be a much harder product to sell to new fans than we have had under Smith with his array of top class stars from both hemispheres. The likelihood is we will slip backwards as a club on the field, in the next 5 years. Whilst people may point out that other SL clubs will be in the same boat too, that is the whole problem, the game in general will find it difficult to grow.

As with all stuff I'm cynical about, I'm happy to be proved wrong but I have a feeling we will be looking at gates closer to 10,000 than 20,000 in the next 5 to 10 years.

What difference has the new corners made to your attendances? You averaged 11,166 for 2011 and then 11,430 for 2012, but I cannot find any stats for attendances this season?

But look at what the club have done in the 10 years we have been in the HJ.

From crowds of 4k- 6k a week at Wilderspool in the 80's and 90's...to crowds of 10k+ now. If we carry on in the direction we are going 20k should be possible.

Don't forget we are in the worst recession in living memory. Growth against this backdrop is going to be hard to believe....but things will get better (here's hoping anyway)...with an improving economy and a growing local population crowds should go up.

Simon Moran is no mug when it comes to business....that's plain to see. If he is backing this long term plan...then there has to be something in it. He's in the entertainment business....and he's rather good at it.

Its all being done sensibly with a strategy linked to proper data....its not pie in the sky, wishful thinking.

As I said previously..this is long term stuff..and its going to be hard work...I believe it can happen., and I trust the people running the business to get us there.

Nice plans. From what was left of Wilderspool to where we are now is already a big achievement. Also, if we are talking about a 22k capacity stadium why are we so fixated with it "being empty, we will never fill it". Firstly, that mentallity would have meant the HJ would have been built initially as a 6000 stadium but also (as has been indicated above) why cant it be a 22k stadium for other events. The MEN holds 21k max (10k for an average gig). Maybe Mr M could get some of his smaller group to perform down here.

Filing the remaining corners does have its problems due to legal/commercial factors but if anyone can sort it, we can.

We had one corporate hospitality box empty last year, but have filled them all this year.

I personally think the amount of wonga that we will get from gates will fall in relation to other income streams, which will become more important going forward. I like the idea of the hotel, it would compliment the business conferencing that we currently offer. Yes it would be nice to get bigger gates, but I think we are living in the past if we think they are the key to a more financially successful club.

At least the plans are in place should the need arise, a business should always be planning for growth. A 3% increase in attendances every year for the next ten would give an avg attendance of just under 15k, so in that instance a capacity increase would be required for the bigger games - 22k is ambitious though. Not that there is anything wrong in that!

I think the most important plans are for the boxes and the hotel. Are they planning on including an additional tier of seats with the boxes?

The hotel seems a good fit and would work well with the conferencing & banqueting facilities already in place at the stadium. What size of hotel would they be thinking of though? The footprint in the NE corner doesn't seem all that big...?

Am I right in saying that the stadium doesn't hold a license for concerts?

Yes I seem to remember something similar when we were goin through the planning phase. Not sure if this can be changed at all with another planning application....?

Growth doesn't just happen in the future because it happened in the past. It gets harder the more you grow.

Bradford went from 4000 in 1995 to 15000 by 2003. You would have thought they could be in the 20000s by now but they are nowhere near.

Bradford had a great team but when a lot of players left at the same time, they did not replace them with players of the same quality. When a top coach left, they didn't replace him with a coach of the same quality.

Of course Bradford had a famed marketing machine but the wooly bully generation started to lose interest. You can't magic up new fans if your product on the field is not as exciting as it was before.

Lets hope Warrington aren't going to lose guys like Morley and Briers without having players of the same or better quality lined up, else the dream of 20,000 fans is going to be a hard sell.

I like Gatcliffe. I even like his cheesy "sexy" stadium comments he makes. I think it's great that we have someone like him at the club wanting to push us forward.

Going back to attendances and fan attraction; one thing that does suprise me is how poor our club has become at game-day entertainment in general. The in-game product itself we have spot on through the excellent team we are lucky enough to have, but pre-match, and half times entertainments are now very poor offerings for me.
I have nothing against the community dancers - they do a great job, but we are a far cry from the Peter Deakin days of the Starlights and the sort of match day package he brought to the club.

People may turn up their nose at cheesy matchday entertainment, but there's no doubt it brings people through the doors.
In my opinion, we need to bring that family package back to Warrington. Make it a day out rather than just a game of rugby.

The club could also embrace social media much more to it's advantage, with better fan interaction. Why can I not vote for my man of the match at a game for example? There's lots that can be done at the club to improve the offering on a Sunday afternoon.

Bradfords problems are well documented, their main problem is the antiquated Odsal stadium and the massive financial black hole it creates....draining resources away from the team. If you don't maintain a very competitive team, challenging for everything , every year, then the crowds will drift away.

We are not in the same postion.

We have very good, solid financial foundations built around a modern stadium. The continued investment in high quality playing staff should be sustainable against this backdrop. You have to have a good product on the pitch....its the number one reason people turn up week in week out. To achieve this you need a very good coach and the necessary money to invest in players. We have both at the moment...and we should be able to attract another top coach when Tony eventually moves on.

Attracting top players doesn't seem to be a problem (apart from the chasm between earning is Aus and here..something out of our control at the moment).

I agree that the likes of Briers and Morley need to be replaced by individuals of at least equal calibre...thats about maintaing the product on the pitch....they are big big boots to fill....hard but not impossible.

We have to show ambition in everything we do...and lets have some confidence...some self belief. For many many years I had very little confidence in the club....but I still rolled up every week....now I'm more confident than ever and our position in the top echelons of the sport can be maintained for many many years.

I don't think names like that matter in getting new fans to turn out. When I started watching I hadn't heard of either. What's more important is creating the sense that the stadium is the place to be, win lose or draw as the heart of the community. For me, growing up on the west side of town it felt like we had no connection to the club or sport and I am sure that is the same for many others still.

Take for example when Andrew Johns came, it doesn't get much bigger than that yet as far as I can remember none of my friends or family knew a thing because unless you follow the sport it means nothing. I'm not quite sure how it should be done but Warrington has a population of 202,000 and I would love to know how many of those people have watched a game at the HJ. With soccer ticket prices and Sky Sports subscriptions continuing to rise, surely there is an opportunity to win some more people like myself over?

I think if they do the hotel idea it will be built outwards to wear the disability parking currently is. You never know they may relocate that parking or Tesco may allocate some of theirs to them since that carpark is never full. In that case the hotel can stretch the entire way around that area; it also may be built over the East stand so the hotel forms part of the second tier etc. I reckon yo could fit a 100 rooms easy in there and you already have the conference rooms and hospitality to be used as the food and drinks areas of the hotel as it is.

BIG MONEY!

The sumo challenge would put at least 3k on the gate.