We have three fixtures on the bounce now (Hull KR away, Saints home, Salford away) that we lost last season. I sincerely hope we are not going for the full set of 2013 defeats on Friday.

Is it unthinkable?

KR away and Saints are borderline OK to stomach. Salford, at the moment, would not be!

If memory serves, prior to this month was the last time we lost back to back games September 2010? Hopefully on Friday we will see that proverbial 'backlash' on Friday.

Its what they call a black swan.

Sounds a little racist to me.

We are not going to win Super League from 5th. Forget that daft idea.

Leeds have done it twice in a row because they are seasoned playoff and Grand Final winners, and have the players to win in those big games.

Leeds winning SL in 2011 and 2012 isn't a black swan....they won it in 2004, 2007, 2008 and 2009 too.

No, the swan was winning from 5th twice in a row. It was an outlier that was not considered, and the consequences were questioning of the regular SL rounds. Post event rationalising why they did it is also classic Black Swan.

Well it depends what theory you use to explain it.

The theory may be "Leeds won SL the last two years because they are the best team at playoff rugby"

or it may be "Leeds won SL the last two years because they derived an advantage from finishing 5th"

But the evidence before the past two years says Leeds were the best team in playoff rugby but no other team got this advantage from finishing 5th.

So us not being Leeds, means we are unlikely to have an advantage in having a harder route through the playoffs. In both 2012 and 2010 we lost our first playoff game, and only stayed in the playoffs because we had a second bite. If we finish 5th and lose our first playoff game, end of season.

I think anyone who says Leeds had it easy from 5th is a fool. Wakefield gave them a tough game, the trip out to the south of France was extremely close and from what I can remember Leeds got the rub of the green from Thaler, then the week after was incredibly close and Tomkins dropping out probably played a big part in it.

At the final Leeds looked like they were playing at home, in comparison we were dazed by the occasion. I don't think there is any club other than Leeds who have the mentality to win it from that end of the table.

Could it be that the correlation is actually losing at Wembley, rather than the coming 5th in the league part?

Leeds lost to Wigan in 2011 and then to us in 2012 and maybe that was what made the difference in the Grand Final?

Could it be that if we get to Wembley this year we should go easy and try and get an advantage in the Grand Final by losing?

Losing tomorrow would be a disaster, even with the players missing through injury we should be beating Salford. Backlash from KR and saints wil be seen.

Not confident. Almost like being back in the bad old days again!

It's an interesting idea, and certainly worth considering. But if Leeds get to the cc final we would be sunk. They are so much better at losing Wembly finals than any other team, we would simply be out-lossed.

Very good Chaz

I'm not confident and also more tha a little nervous as I will be attending with the locals.

It's probably made worse by the massive build up to this "clash of the Titans". No thread on the Turkey board about the game and none on here apart from how long it might take to clear the car park at Barton aerodrome

Regular round apathy?

Why be so negative....just because it hasn't happened before, last year at half time we were still in with a good chance of losing. We just need to get more of a loser mentality in the side. A lot of our players have no experience of what its like to go to Wembley and lose so they can't imagine themselves being able to do it. The fans can play their part to deflate them too, with 30000 Wire fans raining down a chorus of boos it would be like having a man sent off. Maybe some of the older players like Westwood, Wood and Briers could give a teamtalk before the game about what its like to play in a crap side and what it takes to be at that crap level week in week out.

I know you are just trying to cheer me up, but I still think it would be difficult to lose to a great team like Leeds. Yes, if we had teams like those in the 70's and some of the 80's perhaps we would be in with a chance. OK we had a blip when Murphy took over, but all teams go through bad periods. I can still hear the Fletcher end banging on the cladding chanting 'losers, losers, losers'.

It's just not the same anymore.

Don't think so Rico. Fans are satiated with wins coming out of their ears and can't believe we have lost two in a row. I don't think it's apathy, they are all peeping out from the behind the settee, too worried to look at the match.

So far this season we've lost the same games we did last season. I seem to recall it didn't turn out so bad in the end.

Keep the faith even if we lose tomorrow. (As we did last year.)

As an aside - I'm really enjoying SL this season. Much more unpredictable and closer league so far, with some really good games. Unfortunately, this means we're probably going to not see us just turn up and play teams off the park.

I hope we're not turning into Wiganers where if we don't win 30 - 0 every week it's a disaster.

That's a comfort Charlie so thanks.

I have also re read your's and Sal's earlier posts and I am now looking forward to this 'lose/lose' game. Win and it's expected so it's a loss and lose and its also a loss so a 'win/win' all round as we hone our losing skills before the Cup and Play Off series...Come on you Red's it's in the bag.