So it's the fault of St Helens fans that he's not very good at rugby???

Regards

King James

You could well be right with that. What Joel produced with a try a game was an amazing feat, but Hicks imo was amazing to watch ,he was an acrobat who was also a winger.

I think any player that lets opposition fans get to him like that is never going to be a great player.

The likes of Tomkins getting booed by 'England' fans whilst in England duty didn't affect him one jot.

We've given plenty of players stick over the years, and had the boot been in the other foot with Penny wearing a red vee, I dare say the outcome would have been the same.

We need a centre over a winger.

Atkins has signed a new contract so as he doesn't pass so much an expensive winger would be a waste of cap, n we have Lineham on the other wing who if can maintain and progress from his performances in the s8 onwards is fine. So realistically the easiest improvement would be a centre for Lineham

The other wing keep penny n Atkins on that wing hopefully t king can get some game time and look for a winger for king once Atkins retires or moves on.

That leaves Russell for cover on wing or full back unless he can improve and stake a place in the side for somthing other than a scoot.

Centre and wing play iswhat I love about rugby and we have not looked strong in that position for some time so if this rumour is true I hope he is coming in as a right centre I would be a tad more optimistic about our chances of silverware next season if Evans was not at centre. Cannot fault the guys commitment in how he defends and puts in 100% effort but there's no excitement when we move the ball out wide to him like when king or gleeson got the ball there was always the chance they could just do somthing don't get that with Evans, Atkins more but needs to make the easy pass more than try the showboat offload to Russell or penny.

I'm of mixed emotions about Atkins staying I like him and his performance this season certainly Warren another year in my books, but I do believe now could have been the time to give king the centre spot. He will make errors but also must be given the opportunity to learn from them. I think us wire fans have patience for youngsters and support them well whilst they are still developing and also are more forgiving if they make a blooper!

I think king is going to be very good. I can remember watching him at Widnes a season or so ago. He wasn't playing, but he had a ball on the touch line and was flicking it around for fun, until he found someone to pass to. He reminds me of Briers, who also seems to enjoy just having the ball in hand and messing about with it. For these types of players it's all about the ball and so the handling becomes second nature. Atkins is an athlete, but I suspect for him the game is all about running - and remembering to take the ball with him at the same time. Does that make sense ? it does to me anyway.

Remember the pass from King to Atkins in the GF when we were ?10m from the Wigan line? King shaped a flick pass from the side of his body which unfortunately Atkins put down. Not an easy pass, but not too difficult either, and I am sure if the players swapped around, King would have taken it and been over the line. It reminded me of Chris Bridge at his best, where he was able to fashion scoring opportunities for his winger / outside player. He is still only 20 and will surely put on some more muscle over the close season, but I think King is by far the best kid we have had through the youth system since Ben Currie. If you wan't a bit of fun (and it is still there) go to Youtube and look at King's compilation when he was playing for Meltham on pitches with slopes of 10 degrees, or where they had probably just shooed away the sheep to get a game. You can see the ball handling, the swagger, the timing of the pass and the difficulty players had to bring him down close to the line.

My post wasn't aimed at the "hard of understanding".

2 points;
1) Penny was very new to the sport so didn't have the experience that someone like Tomkins had
2) I thought Matt King let Penny down very badly on a number of occasions
It was a combination of factors, but the ridiculing of Penny went beyond anything I have seen previously and I thought it was shameful. Your opinion is different, so be it.

There was that famous photo now....

Matt King and Kevin Penny, split by 2 buses!?

As much as id like to blame saints for everything i don't think we can. Penny's confidence and development took a dive when the excellent James lowes hung him out to dry for showboating and daring to inject some entertainment into the game.

Thanks Offload ... good read this. I think Toby King and Patton made a leap forward during the season and it's made us look much stronger as a squad. Is there any body else you think might do a similar sort of leap next year or year after?

That picture was a mock up . I was trying to highlight the fact Penny should be pulling the defence across .

There is a local lad named Harvey Livett, who has all the requirements for Superleague, who in my opinion needs to be tested at the higher level now.

He can play Centre, Stand-Off, Winger & Back-row, with great handling & goal kicking skills

I was disappointed Smith didn`t play Harvey against Oldham in the Challenge Cup game against Oldham, in stead of Ormsby.

I'd have never of guessed.
I'm gonna change stands for next season, now I know I'm wasting my time standing at the east bus stand.

but that image highlighted Matt King rushing in needlessly on the Saints second rower (dark hair City fan name escapes me) leaving Penny split between Matt Gidley the best centre in the league at the time and Ade Gardner the top try scorer in the league at the time.....

My Recollection of those times IS Penny Constantly waving and shouting at his inside men to come across and on that occasion like many others it never came. So he's left with the choice of going for the man with the ball (the correct decision) and allowing Gardner the simple run in because Gidley was too good with his offloading.

so winger scores, means wingers fault under forum rules at the time.

obviously todays rules are different and when wingers score on Matty Russells wing its allowed because of his grafting mid field carries.


ahhhhh but they were happy days..........

So kps faults are due to occasionally the defensive line not moving across?? Seems as far fetched annexcuse as the saints fans giving him stick for not kicking on and realising his potential.

He is good but not good enough at the top end of the table. We dobt have a winger or centre that is even close to the England nz Oz team n that's not good enough imo.

If the flying pig had his head screwed on and played to his full potential week in week out then we would most definitely have a winger close to the England team.

Our best English wingers according to Bennett are from the 2 clubs at the wrong end of the league.

Is this a serious post? At that time he was an absolutely awful player, whose calamitous mistakes cost you numerous games and potentially trophies. What did Saints fans do that was disgraceful exactly? We got excited sure, a buzz went around the place when the ball neared Penny, particularly in the air. Watching him was similar to watching Jamie Lyon, almost every touch would result in something exciting happening. We laughed when he made his numerous errors, we chanted 'There's only one Kevin Penny'. Are you telling me that you wouldn't react in a similar fashion if we couldn't ever win at the HJ because Mark Percival kept knocking on and gifting you tries? I'm struggling to see what happened that was a disgrace, Penny's performances aside.

Do you have a link for this one please DRH? Can't see anything in the public domain.

I know you've had nothing to shout about of late bar one miraculous season but is that a serious post....?

Kevin penny was in the dream team scoring a try a game burning players off for fun and despite having been playing the game for about two years...!

it was this rise added to the fact Wire fans had started to sing "there's only one Kevin Penny" that when he made a high profile knock on (i'll leave you to see whose ball it was in the first place his or Matt kings) it gave rise to the saints fans chanting the same thing.....you know in a similar way we sing its always our year....when its clearly not....

he scored tries Ade Gardner couldnt..... he even made Jonathan davies Say "Jesus" live on BBC when he goosed Gardner Gidley and Wellens to score in the corner...(ok Wellens so what).. the Great Ray French among others compared him to Martin Offiah......... you don't get that type of comparison every week.

again like I said at the time no one ever sang a mocking, there's only one Richie Barnett when he made an error because we all knew he was genuinely rubbish and we'd likely join in.

its the deluded nonsense that makes me despair... you think Kevin Penny single handedly cost us trophies





Without Kevin Penny this season we dont win away at Catalan a week after a wembley loss (which he wasnt in the squad for) .... which was a huge step to finishing top of the league, where we then go to old trafford and lose like we have been doing a number of times without Kevin Penny making these trophy losing cock ups thank you very much.....

and yes we'd sing there is only one Mark Percival if he finished top of the try scoring charts made the dream team scored wonder tries against us regularly, scored screamers against every one in the league and was billed "the next Mal Meninga" otherwise we'll say "mark who, which ones that?"

as you can see Im in the Kevin Penny camp, i spend my money and I want something no one else gives us... there's a ton of Mark Percivals up and down the leagues......

TFB I wouldn't waste your time. There are clearly 2 camps, those who want to be entertained when they watch rugby and those that want "safety". Saddened, of course, is a Saints fan. You know, Saints the self styled "entertainers". Their team however wouldn't know entertaining rugby if it hit them in the face.
It is strange how people have a selective memory, they forget Matt King being ragged around in his first season, he was forgiven all manner of mistakes as an Aussie international, so when he left KP high and dry they blamed the rookie.
I maintain with the right mentoring he would have been a consistent performer at the highest level.

"Awful player"? When did Saints last have a winger that could score the sort of tries that KP was scoring at the time?

Mal Meninga. The best damn winger I ever saw.

We had Brimah Kebbie at one stage. He could run very fast if he finally managed to catch the ball. Darren Albert was probably faster and a whole lot better than Penny. Still no one has answered what Saints fans did that was a disgrace?

Spend a Penny in those Knowsley Road toilets!!!