[quote="Wires71":5in8orou]Do you think Hayes is good enough for us to win a league title in 2025? Or just good enough?[/quote:5in8orou] I must admit, I don’t know. He was certainly good enough to keep Drinkwater out of the team, and nobody would have been completely bowled over if we won it last year. So by that logic, he’s a chance. I think a good example to look at is Harry Smith. Wigan fans were on his back when he was coming through, he got a rough ride but they stuck with him and he has cruised past Dodd as the “next England 7” and has realistically ended Lomax, Sneyd etc. England chances. He’s top class, the premier 7 in the competition by a distance. I’m not saying that we blindly stick with a player from Young because of hope or suspicion, but he must have shown enough inside the club to earn that vote of confidence. I’m more than happy to give him an open mind. Let’s face it, if Ratchford is the other choice, it’s worth the gamble (no disrespect to Ratch, or Rubber Duckie).

[quote="Barbed Wire":2qn5crwe]I must admit, I don’t know. He was certainly good enough to keep Drinkwater out of the team, and nobody would have been completely bowled over if we won it last year. So by that logic, he’s a chance. I think a good example to look at is Harry Smith. Wigan fans were on his back when he was coming through, he got a rough ride but they stuck with him and he has cruised past Dodd as the “next England 7” and has realistically ended Lomax, Sneyd etc. England chances. He’s top class, the premier 7 in the competition by a distance. I’m not saying that we blindly stick with a player from Young because of hope or suspicion, but he must have shown enough inside the club to earn that vote of confidence. I’m more than happy to give him an open mind. Let’s face it, if Ratchford is the other choice, it’s worth the gamble (no disrespect to Ratch, or Rubber Duckie).[/quote:2qn5crwe] Good points. Obviously i hope he becomes a top half back just that I cannot be sure he is going to be at this stage. Maybe I am reading too much into the "he's the future" as I'm sure we heard the same from Jamie Durbin onwards.

One of the disadvantages of relying primarily on the Academy to stock future Wire squads is that you need to play inexperienced players who will need to work through their errors in competitive games. I suspect there are not too many on here that think Hayes is a shoe in for HB, he does look a good prospect but we are only going to find out 12 months or more down the line. At the moment Burgess has either been lucky or has been very good at judging the right time to field players like Holroyd and TR and we have reaped the benefit. I think it's great that Tai has been dropped and (atm) replaced by a young Academy lad. Track back a year and we all thought he was a breath of fresh air because his defence shored up that edge. So now not only do we have real competition at centre, but we are also demanding some attacking flair and nouse.

[quote="Wires71":h1o93kb8]Good points. Obviously i hope he becomes a top half back just that I cannot be sure he is going to be at this stage. Maybe I am reading too much into the "he's the future" as I'm sure we heard the same from Jamie Durbin onwards.[/quote:h1o93kb8] I agree, we’ve seen the false dawns over the years going back to Hulse, Durbin, Duffy etc. who have promised to be the next big thing, but I think the system failed them too. We need to be patient and build with them, not box them in to be a squad member behind an aging has been. (Again, no offence to Gidley, Roberts, Brown, Sullivan, Rodwell, Doyle, Swann etc. I hope we lose the short sightedness, and Chambers brings the stability and sensibility to push back when the chance comes for a sticking plaster signing when Hayes has a bad run, and he will.

Made up Leyland is starting, Gutted Holroyd misses out, But good to see Fitz back, but absolutely BUZZING Musgrove misses out

[quote="Or thane":1y94x4v6]Made up Leyland is starting, Gutted Holroyd misses out, But good to see Fitz back, but absolutely BUZZING Musgrove misses out [/quote:1y94x4v6] Genuinely can't get my head round hating one of our own players. Anyway hope Leyland has a good game, Sam has made all our bellyaching look daft.

[quote="just_browny":i5lpen76]Genuinely can't get my head round hating one of our own players. Anyway hope Leyland has a good game, Sam has made all our bellyaching look daft.[/quote:i5lpen76] I thought the same seeing the way some people talk about Ratchford, he's been a great servant and doesn't warrant such vitriol.

[quote="matt_wire":mpbacyy5]I thought the same seeing the way some people talk about Ratchford, he's been a great servant and doesn't warrant such vitriol.[/quote:mpbacyy5] I didn't see any vitriol? Just people passing opinion on his selection. I think most people would regard Ratchford warmly.

[quote="Wires71":81k2ilns]I didn't see any vitriol? Just people passing opinion on his selection. I think most people would regard Ratchford warmly.[/quote:81k2ilns] Not sure saying someone is 'haunting the 17' is a particularly warm sentiment.

[quote="just_browny":2eczuc4p]Not sure saying someone is 'haunting the 17' is a particularly warm sentiment.[/quote:2eczuc4p] And in fairness you’d be right in my personal opinions towards Ratchford. IMO he’s been drastically overrated as a rugby league player throughout his career and, as such, has cost us on many occasions….also heard a few things that go against his ‘nice guy’ image.