Do you not feel that the current play off system does devalues the Grand Final though? Stupid stuff like the Club Call, getting another go if you lose the first game and having ove half the teams in the play offs does make it a Mickey Mouse system. I think I'd be more in agreement with you if it was a straight 4 or even 6 team play off, which culminated in the final at OT. As it is I really do find it hard to support the whole farce of the end of season, even though we're in with a shot. When leeds have won it twice from 5th it leaves me feeling like the CC has more validity than the SL system.

That said I don't disagree with you about wanting the win. I don't think Sky (and even some of the other clubs if we're being honest) take us seriously even now. We're still upstart Warrington, having a try but ultimately a 2nd rate club. The only way we're going to change that is by winning the league, not just threatening to.

I don't have Sky Sports or watch it, so can't comment on that, but I think that's spot on about other clubs. We won't be seen as a genuine big club until we have that title. I'll be honest and admit that I won't personally see us as a genuine big club without it either.

As for the first part of your post, well that's a matter of opinion. I have my own views on the current play off system and agree it's far from perfect, but the rules are the rules and everyone knows them. Whatever needs to be done to be crowned Champions is what I want us to do, and I certainly won't ever see that title as devalued. Leeds pulled off two unbelieveable feats in the last two play off campaigns and earned it.

All finishing 5th meant for Leeds was that they couldn't afford to lose any matches in the play-offs. So they didn't. Twice.

This is almost a whole new thread in itself, but:

Top five most painful Wire moments, ever, in order:

1) Leeds elimination semi-final 2011 (head and shoulders above any other defeat, ever). Just like Fatbelly and Yed, I couldn’t talk about it or watch it back, but eventually did just three days before the start of the 2012 season, and I needed beer in order to do it. Instant delete and never mention it again. Today’s discussion is slightly cathartic and the closest I will ever get to group therapy.

2) Grand Final 2012. For obvious and aforementioned reasons.

3) Semi-final v Wigan2004. Third semi-final defeat in four years was almost too much to bear.

4) Wembley 1990. As a 12-year-old, after all the build-up, I just couldn’t compute that we hadn’t won. I was such a little mard about it that I even refused to watch the team come back on the bus, even though it passed within 30 yards of my house.

5) Getting absolutely pummelled at home by Wigan in August 2002 and thinking, ‘We are actually going to be relegated this season. It is really going to happen”.

A 2013 Challenge Cup Final defeat to Wigan would not come close to making this list.

A 2013 Grand Final defeat to anyone would shoot straight in at no.1 and possibly result in my abandoned car being found at a lonely beauty spot.

1) Leeds play off 2011
2) Grand Final 2012
3) Huddersfield play off 2010
4) Hull FC play off 2005
5=) Every trip I ever made to Knowsley Road (too many to remember)



^This.

If we were to lose in the CC Final I would be miffed but by the time we were passing the RAC HQ on the M6 I would be back to normal


If we were to lose in the G/F it would still only make my number 2 of worst defeats with the 2011 defeat to Leeds being still at the top.

About 2 months after the Leeds defeat I was talking to someone who worked for the club and they said that they actually cried when they got home that night.

I think we were all so certain of a G/F appearance not because of arrogance, but because of the honestly held belief we had in our team. We were by far & away in the very best team in SL & played some fantastic RL. That really was our year.

2010 against huddersfield was pretty bad as well.

For some stupid reason i'd agreed to go on a date that night, for some equally stupid reason i'd also decided to put some sort of bieber-ish swooping quiff in my hair at the time, which lead to much taking by the bro's at the game.

that second half was excruciating, as there was a couple of VR decisions, that took forever and the second half was never going to end. as it closer to the end, i started movnig towards the steps, then down the steps, then onto the apron, then mathers went or bust and we all know how that ends.

Needless to say, it wasn't the best first impression i've ever made, turned up late, scowled for most of the evening, and she took the out of my hair.

Losing any play off game (aside from the week one farce) this year will be the hardest of the lot to take for me, whether it be an eliminator or the final itself.

I think a number of this team are genuinely in last chance saloon - obviously those that are definitely leaving, but also a couple of key others who are staying but whose powers will be waning with age - and if it doesn't happen it might be years before it does. If at all.

This year feels like now or never. That's why all my eggs would personally be in the Super League basket if I was picking the team for forthcoming league and cup games.

Grand final defeat wasn't that bad because I had a massive hangover.

1989 CC semi-final at Maine Road was the worst for me. Still rankles.

Well this (barring a final, maybe a playoff) will probably be my last live game of the season, so hopefully it's a good one.

I was in a pub in Oxford, full of Yawnion players, with 4 tellies showing other sport and my one telly in the corner showing the League. I scared two thirds of the pub away with my *colourful* language. The landlord gave me a free pint in sympathy though when we lost.

You're right about Hodgson, the guy seems to take hammer every tackle, I'm the first to comment how softer the game seems to be going but I seriously doubt B.Hodgson agrees, it seems every player puts that extra effort in to smash him yet up he gets, time after time!

Should be a decent game on Sunday, I didn't expect HKR to beat Catalans away or Saints away and don't expect anything here, but they have surprised me recently, with much to do with the blistering starts Rovers have had on their opp. With Wire's famed fast starts, this is going to be crucial to the eventual outcome.

Some of the stuff in this thread is unbelievable.

"Wouldn't be bothered if we lost in Challenge Cup final"

"Rather rest players for CC semi and final than a league match against Hull KR"


Little more than four years ago and people would have given up their first born for the sniff of a CC final.

PY, it's not so often that you and I agree, but I'm with you on this.

And even more,
I'd take a loss against London in the semi, and first and second round defeats in the play offs if I could have an England World Cup win in November.

PY, it's not so often that you and I agree, but I'm with you on this.

And even more,
I'd take a loss against London in the semi, and first and second round defeats in the play offs if I could have an England World Cup win in November.

It must be a generation thing, but having supported the club for over 50 years,the challenge cup, in the current set up is the top honour for me.

After losing last years Mickey Mouse cup I couldn't have cared less, and neither could the 4 others who I went with, we all said we wont go again . Leaving Old Trafford we all couldn't have cared less. It felt like an end of season friendly. I still feel that more honour should be given to winning the league, and that the team who do, should be called the champion team. A champion team is the best over the season, not just three games at the end of the season.
We should then have the Grand Final playoff and the winners should be the Grand Final trophy winners.
However this is probably a bit too logical.
Simples

I'd hand Australia the World Cup on a silver platter right now if it meant Warrington had the next 50/50 video ref decision we're involved in go our way, never mind win a trophy.

What difference does any international tournament make to your life compared with a week in week out passion?

Agree 100% with that last comment, Dropkick.

Warrington is the priority for me. The World Cup is an important tournament, and I'll be supporting it, but I'd take Warrington winning either trophy over England. It's not really England anyway. We have actual foreign players playing for England. It's hard to be patriotic about a team that includes players from other countries. I don't agree with it in any sport, be it cricket, football, whatever. I don't care that the Australians do it.

I'll never tire of seeing Warrington win trophies. When we won the CC in 74 I'll wager no-one in that crowd thought it would be 35 years before we'd win it again. Never take it for granted.

As for worst feelings after games, Hull KR in the Challenge Cup. Grim. And losing the game didn't help, especially from my vantage point in Bruges.

Unfortunately the attitudes above are why rugby league will never be a big sport in this country. Not saying I don't feel the same but it is the root of the issue. We are all parochial.

And with regard to cup wins, I would swop the Challenge Cup for the SL title this year. Both would be nice of course. And then the WCC.

Well part of the problem is that the international game has been so consistently mismanaged that it's difficult to support them over your club. I'd love RL to have an international scene like Union, that people who don't follow the sport week in, week out, could get excited about come the international window, but we don't. The reason we don't is that opportunities to grow the game outside the heartlands have been missed by the governing bodies so that it's neither economically feasible and the product on the field isn't there and won't be for decades because the infrastructure's not there.

The grip SKY has on the game here, combined with the clueless leadership from the RFL, means that the sport has NO negotiating power when it comes to expanding its viewer base, generating more income and thus looking to expand the international scene. My biggest feeling about the world cup is that it could well be a colossal embarrasment, with a lot of games getting less than 1000 people into watch. If it was a properly run international scene putting country over club would make sense, as it is, why should we? RL fans are, at heart, no more parochial than football, yet I don't see that sport suffering from a lack of international competition.

Football is a big sport in this country and I don't know a single person who attends matches regularly and would rather see success for their country than their club. In fact I know plenty who just wish the international game didn't exist as they see it as a pointless distraction from the real business.

Club before country every single time.

What football has - along with sports like cricket and rugby union - are casual fans who don't attend club matches all year but get excited about watching their country. I acknowledge rugby league doesn't have that, and an England win in November could be seen as raising profile, but I doubt it would to any long term degree. If the England hockey team won a major tournament for example, would it make a huge difference? Doubtful because it's a minority sport and that's that. It will take a lot more than a World Cup win to change that for RL, and either way my personal passion for Warrington is massively overriding. I'd prefer England to win the World Cup given the option, but deep down I couldn't really care less.

I don't agree with those above who suggest those of us who have said we massively favour the Grand Final are taking the Challenge Cup for granted either. It's simply a case of us having seen us win one competition three times recently and not yet seen the other at all. We as a club have not been crowned Champions of rugby league in this country for over half a century either, so that kind of influences our thoughts. If I supported Leeds then given the option at the start of the season I imagine I'd probably choose the Challenge Cup over the Grand Final as it's noticeably absent from their recent phenomenal CV. Swings and roundabouts. If we had won both recently, or neither for decades (as was the case four years ago) I'd want both equally and be delighted with either.

As for the WCC, well I don't envisage us ever winning that now the Aussies seem to be doing better in it that they used to. If the Aussies are focussed and up for it then the NRL Champions are generally going to beat the Super League Champions, so I'm not going to get too worked up over it. Qualifying to play in the WCC is more important than winning it for me, although if we end up doing so then brilliant.

That is exactly how it should work, having only 2 trophies in a season to compete for isn't enough as it is.

Whilst I share your views on parochialism, I think it is further compounded by apathy. There are not that many foregone conclusions in sport, but Australia turning it on, when it matters, is certainly one of them.