We sit here today almost a year on from leaving our old spiritual home and the Willows is being reduced to rubble. Today I've read excerpts from a book penned by a succesful, well-regarded ex-player, stating how badly run the club has been in very recent years. I have also read that there were officially 146 in the away end at Wigan last night (I wasn't one of them and I'm not sure whether those who did travel should be congratulated or certified). We have already relinquished one half of a decent half-back pairing and the other would appear to want away from the club. Our full back has decided to retire rather than spend another year playing for us. A decent young centre has decided to up sticks and move 100 miles to further his career playing for a different team who also won't be in the playoffs. Our best centre is rumoured to be wanting to move back to the NRL less than one year into his contract. Rumours suggest we are interested in David Solomona...

I was texted today by another long-suffering Salford fan: "Where is this all going to end? And how many times will we ask that question?"

And...I couldn't answer him. Well, to be honest, I could offer my answer, but I really didn't want to consider it.

Anbody?

Derek, you're letting some of the doom-mongers on here get to you so I'd like to offer a different perspective if I may. The way the club has been run recently has long been debated but suffice to say that Robbie Paul's experiences of the club are from a time in the club's history when it was at a previous ground, in a lower division, under a previous coaching regime and a now departed Chief Executive. Things change, we have a brand new home, we're in SL and so far I've seen little evidence that the club isn't at least attempting to rectify things off the field as best they can with limited resources.

I also congratulate every one of the 146 people that made the trip to Wigan last night but the stark facts are that we had 10 first team regulars missing last night through injury with the rest of our fit players playing in a dead rubber game for us (we're out of the play-offs, are unlikely to climb any further places in the league and can't be caught by the teams immediately below us) against a team actively chasing the Grand Final and would likely have beaten us even if we'd been at full strength. Plenty of reasons for folk not to go there I would have thought!

In terms of player movements - has it occurred to anyone that the amount of money Wigan paid us for Matty Smith may well have been more than how much we'd have received by finishing say 8th or even 7th? At the time we sold him we could have still made the play-offs had it not been for some cruel luck on injuries and some woeful defending against sides we should have beaten which was entirely down to some of the players that I'll mention next. I still think it was a good bit of business to get some money for a player that was leaving us at the end of the season anyway.

Luke Patten - hmm, well, great in attack and has been a joy to watch sometimes this year but his defence, positional sense and inability to catch a high ball have lost us a boatload of games plus his recent penchant for slagging off the club in the press has left me looking forward to a change actually.

Sean Gleeson - another that looks good in attack but his defence again has been woeful on occasions - especially against Widnes - he's let in nearly as many as he's created.

Joel Moon - a joy to watch and will be gutted if he decides to return Down Under or leave to go to another SL club, but remember, we'll still get a fee for him, even if he does go back to the NRL. I just think we were fortunate to have him and we pretty much did his deal under the radar of other clubs in SL, you never know, the current radio silence on signings may not be all bad!

Daniel Holdsworth - a complete confidence player if ever I saw one, when things are chipper he's fabulous and every decision he makes is a good one, when things aren't quite going to plan he disappears and his decision making is simply awful - just what was he thinking at London taking a short kick off when we were still 12 points in front with 17 minutes on the clock? That decision finally turned the game in London's favour and it compounded the fact that he'd missed at least 2 relatively easy conversions in the first half - another player for me that has Jekyll and Hyde characteristics.

The good thing is that we still have Sean Long coaching our attack next year so there is hope whoever our half back pairing happens to be and to be completely fair we have seen some fantastic rugby this year haven't we?

The Solomona rumour is a worrying one, I'll grant you that, but it is just a rumour, remember Kevin Sinfield?

I do, and I'm still waiting for John Gallagher, Anthony Minichello and Craig Gower to sign! Let us hope the club have learnt from signing old, past it players - I would rather we promoted from the U20s than waste money on yet more stars from yesteryear...

You make some very valid points, and to be honest I'm not sure I could disagree with much of what you've written. I appreciate the club is working on a shoestring but I think that is what worries me most - the classic catch 22 scenario, but now we are in bed with the Yawnion lot, in a ground we are paying a lot of money to rent, the stakes seem so much higher. Along with the reported precarious financial position we are in, how can we possibly attract decent players to compliment the handful of good players we will have left?

Derek, c'mon, cheer up, there's no point worrying now about the fact that we've no money, it's been the same for years, Wilky has said that the rent is not as much as people think and Sale moving in makes little impact on us if you analyse it properly. It's time some folk on here calmed down (not you) and realised that we're not going to be challenging for honours on a regular basis, in fact, the best we can hope for is securing one of the lower spots in the play-offs (6th-8th). With a little more luck and effort this year we weren't far off achieving that actually. All the positive signs we've seen this year came out of a fairly turbulent season and off-season last year so hopefully this year's off-season will be much better for Vievers and Long and it will shine through next year. I'm not saying that I haven't had my head in my hands on a number of occasions this year with the way we've played but I still think we've done ok considering.

I agree with a lot you say but the fact remains your logic tells me that reduced rent should equal more to spend on players, not a mass exodus. In my book no new players or old hand my downs next season will most certainly equals less season ticket holders plus less away fans as the novelty factor as gone, how many more spirals can the club survive,the cycle continues unless there is some master plan ready to be launched.

Robbie Paul said he loved it at Bradford Huddersfield and Leigh,about us he said it was an us and them
situation.He also mentioned the captaincy how we took it of Alker,and gave it to Parker then six weeks later
give it back to Alker, without telling Parker what a shambles.That decision must have come from the top
and that's where our troubles lie,not with Tarry he was just doing what he was told,in my opinion.
Paul and Patten can't both be wrong, and we are becoming a laughing stock.

I just knew it wouldn't be long before one of the usual doom and gloom crew turned up.
What happened when Robbie Paul was at the club is ancient history and should be viewed as such, but hey, you carry on bagging the club, I'm sure it'll boost Robbie's sales and feed your need to see incompetent management in everything the club does.

Serious point though; if well respected players like Paul and Patten are highlighting that we are badly run, who is going to want to sign for us (especially when one is about to become an agent)? Will we then, in turn, have to pay more for the same player to overcome their doubts?

Many of us can see how it is... some people refuse to... some of the most experienced players in the game can see exactly how it is... tell us... and even then... many refuse to believe it.

Reason....

I have little doubt there are issues in the background at Salford but I wouldn't trust Paul for all the tea in China, I would though be more inclined to believe Patten despite his views being aired in the Manchester Evening Comic.

What I read lately on here is complete and utter garbage from posters with a couple of hundred posts, who inevitably sooner or later, somewhere down the line will take their blinkers off. I read somewhere on here recently that Salford were over achieving too



FWIW most of us 'older' heads can see Salford for what it really is, for those less fortunate I pity you.

NAIL HEAD HIT

I suggest you take those two not worth's off your avatar too. Loyalty is a two way street, in the last 15 years or so only a handful of players can walk away from this club with their head held high. I understand there are deeper problems from within with Salford, miss-management etc. However the sooner players understand its a privilege and not a right to play the game of RL for any club they can right off! They're not superstars, they're not life saving surgeons, they're not world leaders, they don't have a divine right for adulation, they're just RL players who came through slightly better than their piers to play a sport they enjoy. If they want to hold clubs to ransom or expect the world to look upon them as though we owe them something then they got it completely wrong.

Black cat and Loyal (

) Fan, if you won the euro lotto you’d find fault!

He and others may have made more than a hundred posts if everything that was said wasn’t met with complete doom and misery from you lot.

Not only are you putting people off going to the game with your incessant slagging off the club, but you’re putting people off reading and posting on this board.

Next time one of you post yet another long list of why the club is rubbish, you can add a point for me:
. a small vocal group of fans who slag everything off and cant see the huge negative effect they have on the club, players and fans (potential) new and old.

Now where is that head in sand picture?

Very well put. I may have blinkers on(varifocals) but having had the misfortune to sit near some of these doom mongers on some occasions I will keep my blinkers on, rose tinted ones, for the Wakefield game.

I am more depressed with the attitude of some of our "supporters" than I am with the rugby at least with the rugby we have had injuries, played some poor rugby,made mistakes, but we can do better, can these"supporters" or is this the way that they always are?

First of all, I am assuming that you are referring to me in that post, if not, then I apologise in advance for what I'm about to say.

I'm really at a loss to know why you think that number of posts made on this forum equates in any way to the credibility of what I say. I dare say that e.g. DI and MM could make 10,000 posts and very few, if any, will create any sort of credence to what they say.

Also, seeing as you took the time to read the post about over achieving perhaps you'd like to venture your opinion on how we've been doing on the field since, say, the John Harvey era? I assume then that you think we have either been on target or we have under achieved? If it's the latter, then where should we be and what would the club look like now both on and off the field?

Contrary to what you say (and LF too), I do not have blinkers on, nor do I have my head buried in the sand. I am not an apologist for the club because I also think the club could be run better, I wish that the players would show more respect for the shirt and try that little bit harder to burst out of our mediocrity but it now seems clear that it's a cultural thing at Salford that only a change of ownership will change. I understand the situation at Salford perfectly well but I also recognise that moaning about it will not change that situation. So I've learnt, over 40 years (I assume that still doesn't qualify me for your 'older heads' club

), to watch Salford with a healthy dose of cynicism and reality about our situation. So thanks for the pity but I don't think I'm less fortunate than you, I just have a different perspective and prefer not to worry about things I can't control or influence.

Red Matt has also just made some eloquent points about this forum that makes meaningful debate difficult - I talked about the players, I get posts about my head being buried in the sand and being blinkered. I want to talk about the Rugby we've played this year, it becomes a slanging match about how crap we are as a club - it seems every thread descends into this just lately.

It's not that hard to work out why there's disillusionment amongst some supporters. There was 10 years of propaganda as to how the new stadium would be some kind of panacea; then it arrived and very little appears to have changed for the better.

Just to clear something up and to allow me to fully understand: on the one hand, there are a handful of players (presumably a handful, or is it all of them?) slagging the club off on Twitter or whatever. On the other hand, there are, presumably, players [inot[/i slagging the club off, and some of them have signed or, according to reports, want to sign extended contracts. In order to remain fully unblinkered, you have to disregard the players signing extended contracts and not slagging the club off, and focus solely on the moaners. Does that sound right?

Let's be fair though. It's not like the club didn't try to achieve that is it? The original financing through a casino fell thorough because of a change of government policy. The hotel, the college, the whatever else they tried all fell through as a result of a worldwide financial crisis and the subsequent tightening of belts. The need to get out of the Willows to ensure a franchise led to us ending up in the club moving to an uninspiring new stadium, and one that doesn't bring the much needed finance in.

The players who are after contracts at Salford are the one's who know they're not going to get a contact anywhere else on anywhere near as much money.

And the Peel Holdings factor.

I'm referring to various posters who have recently found The Scarlet Turkey/RLfans forum.




Well as I noted that you have been a member on here since 2002 I can only assume that you haven't been much of a contributer to many of the debates held on here in the last 10 years. I'm not questionning your credibility however I do wonder why, when the majority of people agree that the club is virtually on its knees that you now feel the need to paint a prettier picture of the reality of what is? The long standing posters, long suffering supporters, the moderators and the genuine people of Salford are no mugs. I've said it before so I'll say it again - you can't polish a turd!




They have had valid points on a regular basis, over the top in certain instances I would agree, even leading to one of them posting threatening messages and getting banned IIRC. But they have tried to offer an opinion albeit in a different manner to yours. 10,000 posts or not, there is no point banging on about the saleability of the club when it simply isn't there.




I took the time to read the OP and then went to stick pins in my eyes.




I can venture an opinion from way further back than John Harvey. I know the bar was set much higher both on and off the field from where we are as a club now. Being the latter, there have been mistakes, however, where the club would/should be or how it may have looked on and off the field now would just be a figment of imagination? No point in fairy tales on here!

The club have tried virtually everything and failed to deliver at best. Targets have been set and not met, anything from the 'Save our Salford' thermometer to the delivery of the 'state of the art stadium', from the endless promises from our chief in charge of 'Wembley being on the horizon this year' to the commemoritive shirt or a piece of The Willows turf. Too many square pegs and round holes.




You more or less sum it up here yet you challenge anyone else who agrees with that?




It does though and it has. If it wasn't for the vast majority of hardenned Salford supporters offering their opinions on improvement I dread to think how much worse it could be.




Yet so many posters have not?




Maybe 'pity' was too harsh a word for you. Although from what I've read from you I get the impression you do wish to control and influence, though as you say with a different perspective to me.



The problem lies there in as there isn't much to shout about in all honesty is there?

I'm thinking maybe I shouldn't have started this debate as some of what people are posting on here is all too true, and more than a little depressing. Anyone who comes on here, must have some interest in the club and it's wellbeing, as there are plenty more uplifting things to be looking at on t'internet, so it wasn't my intention for this to degenerate into a personal tit-for-tat.

I guess my original post was born out of frustration. In the past few years we have had the optimism of a move to a new ground and a new start (along with the usual dash of blind faith thrown in), to make me believe that one day, the club I love, may bring a modicum of pleasure to my life. But as I posted originally, I am very worried for the future and whilst we may be able to point to some good rugby this year (though very little in the 'business end' of the season), I fear that despite the best efforts of most (the majority of the players and the coaching staff), the prospects - both immediate and longer term - look very bleak.

What a load of nonsense. If you really think our poor attendances are down to posts on this message board then you're a complete lunatic.

Not too sure where I said poor attendances were because of posts on this board, but thank for calling me names!

This has all gone off topic so if you want to PM me we can continue to discuss (with no name calling).