jamie peacock has mentioned in a article that we should bring back GB every 4 years because it will help the celtic nations retain players......its seriously flawed thinking and this is why..

1. with GB playing every 4 years players are still going to opt for england cos england playing in big tournaments EVERY year and go on tour every other year.....so wales,scotland & ireland are still going to lose players.

2. theres not a single welsh,scots or irish player that would make the GB team anyway...the entire squad would be current england players.....and it would be for years to come


theres not a single benefit to any home nation in bring back GB...


what we should do however is.......wales,scotland & ireland should form their own touring/combination team called the celtic tigers....this team could tour down under...or if the celtic nations agree could play off against france for a 4nations spot or play england instead of england playing the exiles.....the celtic tigers team would do more for the celtic nations than GB ever will as it will keep the focus on the celtic nations and celtic player development.....its about enticing players to stick with or opt for wales,scotland or ireland and giving them something to play for and not about kicking all that development into touch and pretending 17 englishmen in GB jerseys is good for wales,scotland & ireland...cos it is'nt!

so lets leave England as England and lets reward wales,scotland & ireland for their development with better opportunities....

discuss..

It's an interesting idea, but as I see it at the moment the Celtic Tigers would just be Wales under a different name, just as the Lions would, as you point out, be England.

i don't think wales would dominate at all...i think it would be a good mix of all 3 nations

just done a quick fire "celtic tigers " 13

1. greg McNally - ire/elliot kear - wales
2. damien blanche - ire
3. stu littler - ire
4. rhys evans - eng/wales
5. pat richards - ire
6. scott grix - ire
7. danny brough - scot/eng
8. jordan james - wales
9. mike mcllorum - eng/ire (he's only in the eng team cos roby is'nt playing,otherwise he's nowhere near england)
10. craig kopczak - wales
11. ben evans - wales
12. dale ferguson - scot
13. tyrone McCarthy - ire

not a bad side that imo certainly stronger than wales,scotland or ireland.

I'm glad Jamie has stimulated this discussion again. For me the Exiles is a flawed concept; why pay to have washed out ex-NRL players getting together for meaningless games?

The point of the mid season representative games should be to give OUR players the experience of the "camp";playing an intense series of games over a short period.
I'm a fan of a Saxons v Celts series, with the end of season reverting to Great Britain. Can't see the benefit mid-season of French involvement at least in the short term; it would basically just decimate the Dragons team for the duration of the tournament.

Ideal would be along Origin lines; a three match series with the teams missing the Super League rounds the week before each game to prepare for a real tussle! This would obviously weaken a few teams for a few weeks but Brisbane and Melbourne seem to be able to handle it OK. Its not like you can win the competition from fifth or anything!

How about the Normans,Picts,Ancient Britons,Afro Carribeansetc?

You're asking the wrong question. How many of those currently opting for England qualify to opt for Wales, Scotland, Ireland whilst still having the opportunity to play for GB?

Look at the Wales squad from the 1995 World Cup. Ok, lots were RU converts, but many were RL lads who could have opted for England or Wales, and went for their ancestral country. Cunningham, Eyres, Cowie, Atcheson, Harris, Skerrett, Hall, Jones all played for GB and preferred Wales as their home nation. Would they have done that if the GB option hadn't been there?? If England were the only team touring and playing the big boys regularly?? Some, perhaps, but many would have gone for England.


Wrong. Which top-level player will opt for Wales, Scotland or Ireland if England are the only home nation with getting a regular shot at the big-time? Very few. Rhys Evans is the perfect example: as Welsh as they come and opts for England. He might not even make the squad (while his brother is already turning out for Wales) but he prefers to take that chance for the bigger games.

You then get Welsh supporters then saying "we don't want no plastic Taffs" - well make your mind up, you didn't complain in 1995 and there sure as hell isn't the talent in Wales right now to compete. Why not bolster your squad with several higher quality players - everyone benefits.

And looking beyond that, Great Britain is a far bigger brand than 'England RL'. I've never bought an England shirt and never will, they look forced and naff, however a few months ago I tracked down bought a 2001 GB shirt (the Guinness one) because I still love the look and the tradition. I'm not enthused by the 'England RL' brand whereas watching the GB boys had my heart bursting out of my chest. I can name many memorable GB moments but struggle to recall most England results (bar the 2006 Sydney win), simple because I find I'm not that bothered. Oh, I'll watch England but I'm not going to fork out a fortune following them everywhere. That said, I'll be at Salford on Sunday.



The problem has always been that while the logic for removing GB appeared sound at first glance, with a little examination it's heavily flawed.

Cronus, do you think if there was some sort of assurance that some Celtic Tigers team were to play the top teams pretty much every year (Eg Expand 4 Nations into a 6N involving say Aus, NZ, Eng, CT, Fra, PNG?) would that achieve the same sort of goal as allowing them to play for GB?

(As in players would opt for CT over England)

No, and I think it's a terrible idea. Another half-baked forced entity in a desperate bid to create a competitive team. I highly doubt 'Celtic' fans would turn out in number to support such an odd creation, and the message it sends is demeaning to RL in general - a weak sport hooked on desperately creating sides in the name of...well, what exactly? The sporting world would be laughing their heads off at us (again).

As for the players - well, let's say your mother is English and your father Welsh. You can opt for England RL or Wales and Celtic Tigers. Seriously?? A much as I find the England RL brand naff, it's a million times stronger than Wales RL or some false touring side which will still be a weak side. Instead, give that player the option of Wales RL and Great Britain they'll be far more tempted to turn out for Wales.

RL has to fact facts. We are not strong in Wales/Scotland/Ireland, certainly not strong enough to be putting purely homegrown teams out in their name. We have no roots there. Small steps are being made, certainly in Wales and that's the way to progress. Crusaders had the potential but were advanced far too quickly and were doomed to failure. These things take time - decades, even - but that's how you create a grounded team with a loyal fan base - develop roots from the ground up - not just create a club, throw it in and expect miracles. From that can develop a strong national side.

Peacock is absolutely correct. Great Britain was the pinnacle of British RL, the days of the 82/86/88/90/92/94/01/03 Ashes tours were epic and are ingrained on all who remember them. Even the Tri Nations meant more with GB fighting it out with the old enemy. That some executive decided to dispose of GB based on flawed logic is no reason not to reverse that dreadful decision.

Home nations in world cups, and when we play each other, GB in tours and 4nations.

The 23 - 12 win in Sydney was as Great Britain.

I would favour a return to GB too, as I think England has basically adopted all those players anyway. Funny how brough was scotish then English again when it dawned that scotland would never see a game against Oz or Nz.

Top players need the top profile, with the UK no player can be excluded from England selection.

Return to GB and one year out of 4 home nations for the WC.

however I do like the saxons v celts idea over, exiles. It's a representative game, it would allow those playing to be considered for GB selection. It can be played home and away. I would rather see that and some passion in playing for a shirt that gets representation rather than the current exiles concept which whilst well intended creates no passion as there is no exiles passionate supporters.

Oops how did I type that!! England, of course, have failed to beat Australia since the GB split.



Well there you go, I can't really remember any great England RL moments. Actually, not true, I was at the 1995 semi-final and of course we beat the Aussies at Wembley in the opener.

Home nations should be the equivalent of SOO--in other words, part of the selection process for international RL, not the pinnacle of it. If the way to get selected was to pit yourself against the rest of the best GB had to offer then there would be more motivation to opt for Wales et al as players would need to go head to head with current place holders in order to knock them off their perch.

I also wonder if there would be any value (to the domestic game, at least) to barring non-SL players from selection like the Aussies do.

So you don't think Pat Richards would make the GB squad? Lee Briers? Or what about Damien Blanch or even that thug Henderson (am I right in thinking he's played for Scotland?) of Catalans?

I don't mind the idea of a Celtic Nations rep side. It's up there with a Pacific Isles side for me.
Think it would be good to see a 3 week tour from Tonga, Fiji and Samoa to take on Ireland, Wales and Scotland, with a couple of test between Celtic and Pacific XIIIs afterwards.

But can I ask, why Tigers?

Stupid waste of time.

pat richards........not now.....maybe a couple of years ago yeah....interesting he could have switch from ireland to england via the residency laws....but he never has

lee briers.....well he's retired....and he was never selected for GB when he played anyway

damien blanche.........have you seen ryan hall,tom briscoe & josh charnley lately?

ian henderson?....over roby? or even rob burrow or sinfield?? lol

tigers? why not? lol



its funny you mentioned a pacific island rep side........it's likely to be formed to play in the 2014 4nations.

most of what you just said is so one eyed it's just plain stupid



1. please prove that Great britian RL is a far bigger brand than England RL.....i'd bet you a pint that the RFL earns for money from england than they did from GB..

2. aside from getting your memorable wins mixed up lol.....how england beating the reigning world champions in 2009 to make the 4 nations final.....and beating the reigning 4nations champions to make the 2011 4nations final how they are'nt memorable moment just goes to show how blinkered you are...



introduce the "celtic tigers" and then england won't be the only touring team would they!

bring back GB now and players like brough,mcllorum,evans,bridge,harrison etc will still opt to switch to england because england play in big comps every year! so it would'nt make any difference if they have the chance to play for GB every 4 years!!

having the celtic tigers play in big games every year,against england or playing off v france for 4 nations or going on tours down under...GIVES PLAYERS A REASON TO STICK WITH WALES,SCOTLAND OR IRELAND...

and another thing.......i've yet to hear from anyone official from wales,scotland or ireland support bring back GB...and i doubt we will.



during the final years of GB (2001-2007) can you tell me the level of development of the game in wales,scotland & ireland...........i'll answer that for you...ABSOLUTELY COCK ALL!

now go look at whats happened in wales since 2008....and tell everyone "its heavily flawed"


ps wales under 18's beat scotland under 18's at the weekend.......that would'nt have happened 6 years ago..


but yeah scrapping GB was heavily flawed

Why invent a totally new brand (after a year you'll all want to cancel it anyway...) when we already have what everyone wants, Great Britain. Get them to tour Aus + NZ every four years. Problem solved.

No-one in Aus or NZ wants to watch the Celtic Tigers. Give them the GB Lions however...

but not everyone wants GB....


and england already tour australia & NZ every 2 years..........so what would be so special about the same england players going on tour every 4 years as GB????

this would'nt have happened without scrapping GB www.walesrugbyleague.co.uk/artic ... -centre-is Quote THE SECOND stage of development at our Wales Rugby League Elite Performance Centre Deeside Leisure was revealed last week with the opening of our Elite Performance Gym supported and funded by Sport Wales. Wales Rugby League President Mike Nicholas opened the facility alongside Graham Williams from Sport Wales along with 20 delegates. Since the WRL officially opened the facility in May, the North Wales Crusaders Under-18s have developed and training at the performance base, there have been two coaching workshops with over 50 people in attendance, the Wales international squad train there and now the North Wales Under-14s have had their first session part of a 20-week programme developing core skills. The Under-14s, after their two ten-week blocks, will showcase their skills in an Origin Series against South and West Wales U-14s,while the Wales wheelchair international squad who will be competing in the World Cup next year, had their first session. North Wales Manager for Sport Wales Graham Williams said: "I’m delighted to see the Wales Rugby League Elite Performance Centre’s development coming to life. "We’ve worked closely with Flintshire County Council and Wales Rugby League to establish a facility that will benefit not only the players of today but that will also support the talented players emerging from across North Wales for years to come. It’s a fantastic step forward for the sport in Wales and we look forward to seeing the Elite Performance Centre go from strength to strength." Wales Rugby League North Wales Development officer Matt Pritchard said: "Thanks to Sport Wales and the support from Matt Hayes, Flintshire County Council Sport Development Manager, alongside Jeff Shields, Deeside Leisure Centre facility manager and Sian Williams, Operations Manager, this partnership has provided Wales Rugby League with the all in one facility we have needed and is a huge step in our development as a nation. "It’s important we have everything in close proximity and everyone from Wales Rugby League who comes here feels part of the facility and knows its our elite performance base, It further highlights an innovative approach to facility development and showcases best practice in partnership development".'"

this would'nt have happened without scrapping GB www.walesrugbyleague.co.uk/artic ... -centre-is Quote THE SECOND stage of development at our Wales Rugby League Elite Performance Centre Deeside Leisure was revealed last week with the opening of our Elite Performance Gym supported and funded by Sport Wales. Wales Rugby League President Mike Nicholas opened the facility alongside Graham Williams from Sport Wales along with 20 delegates. Since the WRL officially opened the facility in May, the North Wales Crusaders Under-18s have developed and training at the performance base, there have been two coaching workshops with over 50 people in attendance, the Wales international squad train there and now the North Wales Under-14s have had their first session part of a 20-week programme developing core skills. The Under-14s, after their two ten-week blocks, will showcase their skills in an Origin Series against South and West Wales U-14s,while the Wales wheelchair international squad who will be competing in the World Cup next year, had their first session. North Wales Manager for Sport Wales Graham Williams said: "I’m delighted to see the Wales Rugby League Elite Performance Centre’s development coming to life. "We’ve worked closely with Flintshire County Council and Wales Rugby League to establish a facility that will benefit not only the players of today but that will also support the talented players emerging from across North Wales for years to come. It’s a fantastic step forward for the sport in Wales and we look forward to seeing the Elite Performance Centre go from strength to strength." Wales Rugby League North Wales Development officer Matt Pritchard said: "Thanks to Sport Wales and the support from Matt Hayes, Flintshire County Council Sport Development Manager, alongside Jeff Shields, Deeside Leisure Centre facility manager and Sian Williams, Operations Manager, this partnership has provided Wales Rugby League with the all in one facility we have needed and is a huge step in our development as a nation. "It’s important we have everything in close proximity and everyone from Wales Rugby League who comes here feels part of the facility and knows its our elite performance base, It further highlights an innovative approach to facility development and showcases best practice in partnership development".'"

As opposed to some ridiculous idea: "I know, let's create ANOTHER artificial team"!!


Any evidence? I won't argue they don't - it's probably easier with online marketing and an online retail outlet.

But I'd bet a pint with a similar set-up for Great Britain alongside England, they could earn more.




You're using a couple of wins against NZ as proof of how strong 'England RL' are? They're almost as inconsistent as we are! 2 wins against NZ, zero wins against Aus - we can't even beat the Exiles!!




Another fake team for meaningless games...just what RL needs. Wonderful.

People with Celtic roots are generally very proud of them. Give them the option to play for that country and they'll generally snap it up. However, while Wales, Scotland and Ireland are -poor teams mostly competing in meaningless competitions, and while England are still the only ones guaranteed regular games against the big boys, their best players will always opt for England. Reintroduce GB and these players can opt for Wales, etc while still getting a shot at big games/tours against the big guns - exactly as happened in the past! I'm not sure what's do difficult to understand about that?

A Celtic team would still be a -poor team, made up predominantly of Welsh players. They would still get spanked by England, NZ or Aus, indeed any SL or NRL side. Utterly, completely pointless. Top level players are not going to flock to the 'Celtic Tigers' (lol) banner.


Shock. Someone working for the Welsh, Scottish or Irish RL doesn't support the reintroduction of an international entity above their level? Well there's a surprise.


Tell me about some development in Wales that is a DIRECT consequence of the removal of GB?

The rise of Crusaders and now South Wales probably have more to do with the growth of the game, plus the RFL introducing development officers and generally pulling their fingers out as far as development is concerned - and not just in Wales.

And please explain why the existence of a GB should adversely affect the development of the sport in Wales? It gives Welsh players something to aspire to, it gives players with Welsh roots more incentive to opt for Wales, it brings Welsh support to the GB banner.

GB is a team, not a national development operation. The players gather probably every other year and play in GB shirts. They don't need development funds, development officers, permanent facilities, etc - all they need are operational funds every so often and some marketing funds. There is no reason is should detract from any development.


??? A Wales u-18s wouldn't have beaten a Scotland u-18s 6 years ago? Were Scotland u-18s a dominant force 6 years ago? WTF are you on about? Actually, it DID happen - and more than 6 years ago:



Home Nations Championship 2004: Wales 34 Scotland 28
Friendly Match 2005: Wales 36 Scotland 12
European Championships 2006: Wales 14 Scotland 14 (ooh nearly a win!)
Home Nations Championship 2007: Scotland 10 Wales 68
Home Nations Championship 2009: Wales 30 Scotland 6


Yes, it was.

you've contradicted yourself so many times in that post its funny......


you go on about "yet another meaningless team"...........GB is meaning less cos 17 englishmen does'nt represent the GREAT BRITISH ISLES!!

you say celts are proud and would jump at the chance to play for their nation.....and with GB around they might get the chance once every 4 years to play the big boys....WITH A CELTIC TIGERS TEAM THE PROUD CELTS WILL BE REPRESENTING THEIR CELTIC ROOTS EVERY YEAR AGAINST THE BIG BOYS!!! your telling me they would'nt jump at that??

you say that all the development in wales is'nt a result of GB disbanding..........OH IT IS SUNSHINE..everything from youth development,spreading the game in schools and getting together with SPORTwales to build the performance is a direct result of having the spotlight turned off GB and onto the "home nations"........thats exactly why you won't hear from the welsh..or scots..or the irish about bring back GB..COS YOU ARE RIGHT..THEY DON'T WANT A TEAM (GB) SMASHING RIGHT OVER THE TOP OF THEM AND STEALING THAT SPOTLIGHT AGAIN!!!

the only people that want GB back is flat capped one eyed englishmen who think wearing a red & blue chevron will magically make 17 englishmen better....IT WON'T!!