I'm becoming more interested in the Australian game and particularly the teams in and around Sydney. I'd welcome any information from knowledgable contributors regarding the Sydney teams. Here's a few questions you could help me out with,

How many teams are there actually in Sydney, are places such as Penrith and Cronulla within the city limits or towns in their own right. Were they originally seperate from Sydney before the urban sprawl encompassed them ?
Who is the biggest club support wise, i.e if successful could pull in the biggest crowds ?
How many are still original individual clubs and how many are merged such as Wests Tigers for example ?
Do clubs historically draw support from certain areas, i.e directly around the stadium, or do some attract a city wide audience ?
Are there any particularly fierce rivalries between certain teams and their supporters ?
Do certain teams attract a more "working class" supportbase as opposed to teams in more affluent areas ?

Any replies would be appreciated, it always helps to get a flavour of the clubs rather than just reading match reports whilst not understanding the character and tradition of the clubs.

There are 9 clubs in Sydney (including St George Illawarra) at the moment and they are

Parramatta (Established in 1947)
Canterbury (Established in 1935)
Cronulla (established in 1967)
Penrith (established in 1967)
South Sydney (original club from 190icon_cool.gif
Sydney Roosters (established in 1908 were called Eastern Suburbs for 90 odd years, still the same club though)
Manly (Established in 1947)
Wests Tigers (merger between two original clubs starting back in 1908, Western Suburbs and Balmain, merged in 1999 I think)
St George Illawarra (Merged team from St George and Illawarra, Saints came into the comp in 1921, Illawarra (wollongong 1981)

Parramatta hate Manly, Canterbury, Penrith, Wests Tigers, Souths And St George Illawarra.
Canterbury hate Parramatta, St George Ill, Roosters, Wests Tigers and Souths.
Cronulla really only has a hate for St George Ill.
Penriths main rival is Parramatta followed by Wests Tigers and when winning, the roosters.
South Sydney hate everyone.
Sydney Roosters hate south's, Bulldogs, St George Ill and sometimes Parramatta.
Manly hate everyone and everyone hates Manly
Wests Tigers main rival would be Parramatta, followed by in no order Canterbury, Penrith, Souths, Manly, Roosters and St george Ill
St George Illawarra Hate Cronulla, Parra, Canterbury, Roosters, Souths, Wests Tigers and Manly.

The top 4 supported clubs are easily Parramatta, St George Ill, Canterbury and the Wests Tigers.

Each club can get big crowds when going well, Parramatta would have the biggest bandwagon though.

It's a myth about the working class, RL is followed all over Sydney, don't listen to what certain types from other sports say, it's bs.

Hope that helped, if you want to know anything else, I'll do my best mate.

Well explained EF...

Though I do have to disagree with the "working-class" myth. I think this is where the roots of the game always have and more or less always will be. Because of its sheer popularity in Qld and Aus, it is supported by everyone all ages, genders, ethnic backgrounds etc... But walk into any local Rugby league clubhouse to have a beer or watch a match and there is a distinct difference between the 'type' of crowd you will find there, compared to a local Rugby Union clubhouse... Yawnion still has that elite, snobby vibe about it and it is still evident I think. Not sure how things were down in Sydney, but I know in Brisbane, League is a game played mostly by public schools, while union is played mostly by private schools...

I think across the board, the two most hated clubs are easily Manly and Roosters, especially if they're having good seasons...


Depending on how 'into it' you're getting Leeds Owl, you may also be interested to read up on a few of the clubs who are no longer in the NRL, most prominently Newtown Jets and North Sydney Bears... Also, (sorry if you know this already, but) if you read up on the 'post-Super League' years you will see that South Sydney came very close to joining them in the lower leagues...

Yeah I agree about the snobs, but they still watch when no one is watching them if you know what I mean

langpark's correct of course.

In Sydney the foundation clubs from 1908 still exist and play in various grades, they just don't have a team in the first grade competition, which is at present called the NRL

North Sydney (Bears) 1908, forced to merge with Manly in 99 and bowed out of the joint venture despite it clearly saying in the contract that the licence would go to Manly if that happened. They play in the NSW Cup as Souths feeder side. U16s and U18s. They also played in U20s until 2008 when the NRL started a comp.

Newtown (Jets) 1908. After going arsé over tit financially in the early 80s still play in the NSW Cup. They are currently the Roosters feeder side.

Balmain (Tigers) 1908. Still have team in every comp NSW Cup, U16s, U18s as well as having a merged first grade side and U20s side with Wests (Magpies) who are exactly the same 1908 etc. etc.

Sth's have the biggest membership and if they can ever get it together on the field will arguably be the biggest club in Sydney

Sth's
Bulldogs
Tigers
St's

rest are small suburban clubs that struggle to draw a crowd and keep their heads above water financially



St's seem to have the biggest fanbase outside of Sydney of any of the teams

Most of them play in cr4p grounds not suited to where the game needs to head to. It is likely there will not be 9 Sydney teams by 2030 imo as the game once again strives to become national with big city clubs like Perth, Brisbane2 and Wellington eventually joining the NRL and small suburban clubs struggle to keep pace.

lol, JB, you just love winding up us eels fans.

Can't wait to see your team come back in so we can wipe that smugness from your face

yes I do enjoy a bit of fishing!

In all seriousness though I would love to see the IC buy Parramatta stadium, co invest with the NSW govt to spend $200mill creating a moden 35K seater stadium on the site and have an NRL owned stadium in the West that the Eels, Bulldogs and Tigers used.
I'd move Sth's and St's plus Roosters to SFS (criminal that the best RL stadium in Sydney gets used so little) and Manly, Panthers and Cronulla can stay in their small stadia with no fans until they realise that relocation is their best option.

There was talk a few years ago about redoing Parra stadium, 40k or so I think with a roof.

Would be an awsome stadium if that ever happened.

I could only see it happening if 3 clubs shared it. It is ridiculous that clubs keep trying to scrape a few million to improve all these sub standard stadiums. 35k would be fine with any massive blockbusters moved to ANZ. If Eels, Dogs and Tigers shared it, it would make it viable and much more likely the NSW govt would invest in it.

Clubs pay $100k lease fee to use it per game and keep the gate takings. That would be a nice $300k per game income if they avg 20k which is a hell of a lot more income than they are currently getting from their stadium deals.

Would also stop the game looking ridiculous on TV when you see 60k empty seats at ANZ.

If they are going to redo it, just put a 60k stadium there and be done with it.

The 3 teams when playing each other are getting bigger and bigger crowds each year, won't be long before they are getting 40k +.

I think it will be a long long time till any Sydney team avg's 40K+. a 35k stadium will be perfect for those three teams and then for any games that threaten 40k+ they can use ANZ which isn;t bad with that sort of number in it. Big issue at the moment is seas of empty seats at grounds, no point in having a 60k stadium that only gets 20-25k most weeks (and thats if those teams can pick up their crowds, Parras is nearer 15k isn't it?)

15k and we were last going into the final round.

I'd heard that Manly were a disliked club, no coincidence you've just confirmed it. My own team Leeds are disliked and have been for a number of years. Teams can be disliked in England for a number of reasons, dominating the game and taking all the trophies, being a rich club and buying up all the talent, being a big city club and lording it over their small town rivals. Leeds have dominated the super league recently (champions 4 times in 5 years) as did wigan in the 80's and 90's. Both are probably the most disliked teams in superleague. Wigan were guilty of "buying" success in the 80's and 90's when they were the only professional team that had full time players and hoovered up all the most talented stars, while Leeds have always been classed as the big city club and disliked even before our recent successful period when we couldn't win a trophy for years. It would be great to live in a city where Rugby League is as massive as it is in Sydney but Leeds will never have the cross city rivalry that Sydney has due to the demise of the other two Leeds teams. Hunslet were a major force in years gone by and could pull over 20,000 for games in south Leeds, they now survive on crowds of 3-400. Bramley were the other team in Leeds but are now struggling to survive as amateurs. Hunslet suffered unlike any other team because thousands of "slum" houses were flattened in the Hunslet area and people were relocated to other parts of the city, that undoubtedly affected the support for the club. Motorways, industrial sites and shopping centres now occupy the majority of hunslet where the supporters once lived. It would be great to have a genuine big city "derby" match but those days are long gone.
One more question for you, who has the most vocal fans and where is the most intimidating place to play ? In England i'm sure most people would say Hull is the most intimidating place to play whether it be at Hull f.c or Hull kingston Rovers.

There was a very interesting article on the Newtown jets in the 2nd of a new monthly magazine in England called 40/20. It described their history and the "bohemian" nature of the club due to the area the ground is in and the people that go to watch them. It said that people watching from cars around the edge of the track and picnics on the grass bankings made for a unusual and homely atmosphere. I'll have a read up on the Bears, thanks for the info.

Quote ="leeds owl"One more question for you, who has the most vocal fans and where is the most intimidating place to play ? In England i'm sure most people would say Hull is the most intimidating place to play whether it be at Hull f.c or Hull kingston Rovers.'" For me it was always Belmore, where the Bulldogs played. Their fans could be a little bit intimidating at times. Nowadays, I can't think of anywhere really. Quote ="leeds owl"Newtown jets in the 2nd of a new monthly magazine in England called 40/20. It described their history and the "bohemian" nature of the club due to the area the ground is in and the people that go to watch them. It said that people watching from cars around the edge of the track and picnics on the grass bankings made for a unusual and homely atmosphere.'" The Bluebags play at Henson Park. And yes you can still drive in, park there and watch the game from your car, though these days the numbers of fans would mean you would get a seat anywhere. Though they always announce their official attendance as the same at every single home game. It's something like 8,492. The ground itself was actually a velodrome and was used in an Empire Games apparently, which explains it's shape and there's the King George V stand there too. www.newtownjets.com/Jets_lounge.php a brief history here: www.newtownjets.com/history.php

Quote ="leeds owl"One more question for you, who has the most vocal fans and where is the most intimidating place to play ? In England i'm sure most people would say Hull is the most intimidating place to play whether it be at Hull f.c or Hull kingston Rovers.'" For me it was always Belmore, where the Bulldogs played. Their fans could be a little bit intimidating at times. Nowadays, I can't think of anywhere really. Quote ="leeds owl"Newtown jets in the 2nd of a new monthly magazine in England called 40/20. It described their history and the "bohemian" nature of the club due to the area the ground is in and the people that go to watch them. It said that people watching from cars around the edge of the track and picnics on the grass bankings made for a unusual and homely atmosphere.'" The Bluebags play at Henson Park. And yes you can still drive in, park there and watch the game from your car, though these days the numbers of fans would mean you would get a seat anywhere. Though they always announce their official attendance as the same at every single home game. It's something like 8,492. The ground itself was actually a velodrome and was used in an Empire Games apparently, which explains it's shape and there's the King George V stand there too. www.newtownjets.com/Jets_lounge.php a brief history here: www.newtownjets.com/history.php

I was going to say the bulldogs too

I agree rooster, it has got better, but you just know with the dishlickers that once you think everything is ok, something big will happen lol.

That's interesting, I never knew Bramley and Hunslet were that big, but I think you're being kind to Hunslet, I think they're averaging less than 1000 these days... I hear Bramley are coming into Championship One in 2013, still a long way from SL, but positive news none the less...

I know Leeds-Bradford isn't really a derby, but I remember when I first got into SL in 2003/2004, these were arguably the two best teams in SL and there was a great rivalry there... As a neutral, it made for great viewing...


Yeah agreed. The thing about sport in Aus, compared to Europe, is that there is no unity among fans, they turn up with their friends as though it's a social outing and (many, not all) spend the whole time chatting and barely watching the game. Someone who actually tries to get up and start a chant gets ridiculed for it... Whereas in Europe, the fans are there to support the team and help them get over the line, so there can be intimidating atmospheres for players that have an effect on the result. I know in Greek football for example, home ground advantage is a huge thing because the crowd play such an important role...

That's true what you say too about the Bulldogs, they have a lot of scumbag supporters still today, but this would have no effect on the players at all, only on other fans who are attending the same matches as them...

That's actually quite sad to read about Hunslet and Bramley.

I hope they can keep the fires burning at least.

Quote ="Rooster Booster"For me it was always Belmore, where the Bulldogs played. Their fans could be a little bit intimidating at times. Nowadays, I can't think of anywhere really. The Bluebags play at Henson Park. And yes you can still drive in, park there and watch the game from your car, though these days the numbers of fans would mean you would get a seat anywhere. Though they always announce their official attendance as the same at every single home game. It's something like 8,492. The ground itself was actually a velodrome and was used in an Empire Games apparently, which explains it's shape and there's the King George V stand there too. www.newtownjets.com/Jets_lounge.php a brief history here: www.newtownjets.com/history.php'" Thanks for the links and information. I wouldn't mind a "2nd" team like that over here in Leeds.

Quote ="Rooster Booster"For me it was always Belmore, where the Bulldogs played. Their fans could be a little bit intimidating at times. Nowadays, I can't think of anywhere really. The Bluebags play at Henson Park. And yes you can still drive in, park there and watch the game from your car, though these days the numbers of fans would mean you would get a seat anywhere. Though they always announce their official attendance as the same at every single home game. It's something like 8,492. The ground itself was actually a velodrome and was used in an Empire Games apparently, which explains it's shape and there's the King George V stand there too. www.newtownjets.com/Jets_lounge.php a brief history here: www.newtownjets.com/history.php'" Thanks for the links and information. I wouldn't mind a "2nd" team like that over here in Leeds.

oops, you're right! hehe, I guess I was reading through it too fast...

Nice little history lesson there. It's a shame the way they lost those fans, I guess it wasn't really a situation they could have any control over... I suppose you'll have to settle for Leeds/Bradford as a derby these days...