Hi I am currently undertaking some research into the relationship between the two codes of rugby football. The research aims to identify how the two codes have changed since union turned professional and the super league was added to rugby league. Issues such as rugby union buying rugby league players, media coverage of the two sports and stereotyping of supporters and players are to be researched. Could you please fill in the questionnaire, it will take around 3-4 minutes just follow the link below. www.surveymonkey.com/s/88SN82L What are your views on these topic areas? Thanks

Hi I am currently undertaking some research into the relationship between the two codes of rugby football. The research aims to identify how the two codes have changed since union turned professional and the super league was added to rugby league. Issues such as rugby union buying rugby league players, media coverage of the two sports and stereotyping of supporters and players are to be researched. Could you please fill in the questionnaire, it will take around 3-4 minutes just follow the link below. www.surveymonkey.com/s/88SN82L What are your views on these topic areas? Thanks

union waged a war on RL for 100 years for being professional.

it then went professional itself

no apology mind.

even when a RL player has been in union they still refer to him as a league player

the union media and union bosses tended to blame the league players for bringing in a foreign culture to union

I think your right in that the very reason that the two codes went their own ways, union wanting to be amatuar and league professional, i find it interesting that these roles have almost swapped with more amatuar rugby league

Can I recommend Tony Collins' "1895 and All That" to you?

He suggests that the split is best seen as a civil war in Northern rugby. He also blows apart the amateurism argument of the RFU.

It was not about Union wanting to be amateur it was about the powerbase and control of the sport gravitating towards the Northern teams populated by tough working men who were better than the public school middle class originators of the sport.

The "amateur" requirements effectively achieved that.

See Vichy France.

I forget what it is called but there is a fantastic book on it.

forbidden game.

rugby rebellion by sean fagan as well.

just different cultures between the sports

the wallabies and kangaroos were touring england at the same time

wallabies captain john eales was asked if he intended meeting up with the kangaroos, his reply was they were from a "different tribe".

thats the union mentality. elitism.

in australia RU players largely come from the private schools where RL isnt played, tuition often being $10,000 - 20,000 pa.

RL players come from the rest of society

Just stick to Tony's (Collins) work and you will be ok.

I have fond memories of us both ripping into a union presenter at the 2008 Centenary Rugby League Conference in Sydney...

Quote ="mrcrampt"Hi I am currently undertaking some research into the relationship between the two codes of rugby football. The research aims to identify how the two codes have changed since union turned professional and the super league was added to rugby league. Issues such as rugby union buying rugby league players, media coverage of the two sports and stereotyping of supporters and players are to be researched. Could you please fill in the questionnaire, it will take around 3-4 minutes just follow the link below. www.surveymonkey.com/s/88SN82L What are your views on these topic areas? Thanks'" If I were you, I would touch on the pillaging and raping of our (RL's) intellectual property through the use of former RL players, RL coaches, RL administrators and even RL referees by union. Consider the fact dickless can't answer here - why do 8 out of 12 Guinness Premiership union sides and all 4 Home Nations union sides have rugby league coaches??? Consider the fact almost the entire Wigan side from the mid-1990s has since been utilised by union to try and enhance the professionalism of the union set-up. Then consider how rugby league has no interest in union coaches, anywhere in the world for that matter. Then join the dots.

Quote ="mrcrampt"Hi I am currently undertaking some research into the relationship between the two codes of rugby football. The research aims to identify how the two codes have changed since union turned professional and the super league was added to rugby league. Issues such as rugby union buying rugby league players, media coverage of the two sports and stereotyping of supporters and players are to be researched. Could you please fill in the questionnaire, it will take around 3-4 minutes just follow the link below. www.surveymonkey.com/s/88SN82L What are your views on these topic areas? Thanks'" If I were you, I would touch on the pillaging and raping of our (RL's) intellectual property through the use of former RL players, RL coaches, RL administrators and even RL referees by union. Consider the fact dickless can't answer here - why do 8 out of 12 Guinness Premiership union sides and all 4 Home Nations union sides have rugby league coaches??? Consider the fact almost the entire Wigan side from the mid-1990s has since been utilised by union to try and enhance the professionalism of the union set-up. Then consider how rugby league has no interest in union coaches, anywhere in the world for that matter. Then join the dots.

he sounds like a good bloke does tony collins

wish i was there, that sounds like fun

It was a great 2 day conference I must say...

A few others in attendance:-

* Dr Greg Mallory - who recently published "Voices from Brisbane Rugby League"
* Ian Heads
* Sean Fagan
* Dr Robert Fassolette (France) - heavily involved in organising the World Cup of Wheelchair RL
* Guy Hansen - Senior Curator at the Australian National Museum
* Andy Carr - Senior Librarian, NSW Library
* Katherine Haines - who did an excellent paper on the Women's Rugby League game in the 1920s which attracted 30,000 to the SCG
* Dr Andrew Moore - author of the magnificent book on North Sydney Bears (one of the best sporting histories ever written)

what was the union twit saying and what was said in response?

I forget his name...he was that memorable.





His subject was (to paraphrase):- Don't forget the history of the former Wallabies when reflecting on 100 Years of Rugby League in Australia...

I got him to admit, in front of about 100 people, that the Wallabies jersey was promised to Rogers, Sailor, Tuqiri et al before they switched and that this seriously diminished any talk of that jersey having real value (when compared to say a Kangaroos one).

After he had been smashed with the Jim Lisle 1962 example...





At least he has that in common with Whooosh.

Tony made the point, well and in the context of the discussion, that any issues for union caused by union players changing codes to rugby league were self-inflicted given the failure of the original rugby code administered by the RFU to keep the house in toto during the professional/amateur divide of 1895.

A fair point that left the speaker shuffling his feet.

wish i was there id have chucked some tomatos at him

who gives a flying f**k about the wallabies

it was our centenary we were celebrating

tony collins sounds like a good bloke, someone id like to have a chat with

his books were very well researched

my favourite though is fagan

rugby rebellion is brilliant

simply :

rugby league = good
rugby union = evil

He wasn't the only goose trying to poop on the party.

A certain academic from a western Sydney university, who has written shy te about the game before, also featured.

Having said that, their attempts were treated with the measure of contempt they deserved by the large and knowledgeable gathering of excellent thinkers on the game...

The work on rugby league's contributions to the various war fronts throughout the 20th Century was a superb paper that debunked much of the union mythology on that subject (preached by the likes of Spiro Zavos and the village idiot Peter Fitzsimons).

The one on the Women's Rugby League movement during the 1920s was also excellent and became the subject of a later one hour radio documentary on ABC radio. The crowd for the match in Sydney at the SCG (30,000) still surpasses any attendance for a female only sporting contest - outside the Olympics - in Australian history as far as I am aware.

Other excellent papers on Alex Buzo (involving his beautiful daughter); Dennis Tutty - the foremost legal case in Australian sporting history on the subject of club transfers; and rugby league's rich history in the Aboriginal nation of Bundjalung made the visit to Sydney one of the most interesting of my life and career.

They are both nice guys.

Sean is a bit elusive; a quiet family guy.

Tony is a funny, highly knowledgeable (obviously) and passionate Robins man; who was clearly exasperated with England's form (he wasn't the only one!) when we watched the England v New Zealand match (at Newcastle during RLWC 200icon_cool.gif in a lovely little Sydney pub after the first day of the conference.

Poor bugger...

Look at how the ru allowed payments in Wales to stop rl in the early 20th centuary fearing if Wales turned to rl the southwest would too. Also uni of Edinburgh did a study in the late 90's about injury rates in union going up 500% after they allowed padding. And also how London Scottish etc went bankrupt as players and agents miles them dry and the rfu was too proud to speak to the rfl about the costs of administaring a pro set up. So ru clubs how to find out the hard way.

same with leicester as well

the rfu learned after that to apply double standards

seriously jealous, youll have to give me a better run down of the conversation one day

id love to talk to people like him

one game has spent 100 years evolving into th etoughest ball handling sport in the world, one has been mired in its squalid rules stifling ball handling free running. I'll leave it to you to guess which is which!

Make sure that you include the book "Rugby's Berlin Wall" for information about the relationship between the two codes of rugby from 1895 to 1995. It was published in September 2005 by London League Publications and written by Graham Williams, Peter Lush and David Hinchclife. More details on www.llpshop.co.uk

Make sure that you include the book "Rugby's Berlin Wall" for information about the relationship between the two codes of rugby from 1895 to 1995. It was published in September 2005 by London League Publications and written by Graham Williams, Peter Lush and David Hinchclife. More details on www.llpshop.co.uk

Watch the cross code challenge from '96 (I think) on Youtube. Even the pundits are entertaining.