But Wllliam, you don't get it. You are comparing this fixture with historical data stretching way back. Why don't you do this with every fixture rather than simply comparing it to last season? Oh yeah, it might paint a picture that you don't like - that Super League attendances for a lot of clubs have massively improved, whilst declining at other clubs. Does this point to a meltdown in the game like you suggest? You only have to go back to 2003 to see Warrington getting just 7,000 at home for their Widnes derby, whilst the now attendance powerhouse Wigan barely averaged 10,000 fans at home - they got 14,138 at the JJB for a regular round derby against St Helens, which they now consistently sell out. But you choose to just focus on the negatives - the Bradford v Leeds derby. This is what makes you a troll, rather than a constructive critic.

Such a big drop in one season can't be explained by that. Why the much better results two years ago? Are other sports seeing these falls? Anything near a ten percent fall in one season is a massive wakeup call. To my utter shock, the RFL appear to have heard it. The solution offered seems somewhat bizarre but awareness of a problem is a good start. The next good thing would be a new team at the RFL.

UPDATE...
[uSL Round 14 attendances - comparison to same fixtures last year[/u

Bradford V Leeds in 2013 = 12,016
Bradford V Leeds in 2012 = 20,851
% decrease = -42.37%

Hull V London in 2013 = 11,438
Hull V London in 2012 = 10,096
% increase = +13.81%=#0000BF ***WOW!***

St Helens V Widnes in 2013 = 11,438
St Helens V Widnes in 2012 = 14,253
% decrease = -19.75%

Wigan V Salford in 2013 = 12,489
Wigan V Salford in 2012 = 13,703
% decrease = -8.86%

Wakefield V Catalan in 2013 = 6,125
Wakefield V Catalan in 2012 = 7,254
% decrease = -15.56%

=#0000BF ***Congratulations to Hull FC on bucking the downward attendance trend by [url=http://www.hullfc.com/article/24849/ticket-prices-slashed-for-london-clashslashing ticket prices for tonight's home game against London[/url.

73 out of 94 SL fixtures in 2013 have now registered a fall in attendance compared to the same fixtures between the same teams last year.

Attendances in SL in 2013 are now 120,075 down in total compared to the same fixtures between the same teams last year.

Total SL attendance for 94 SL fixtures in 2013 = 805,611 (Avg: 8,570)
Total SL attendance for same 94 SL fixtures in 2012 = 925,686 (Avg: 9,84icon_cool.gif
% decrease = -12.97%
Total SL attendance for same 94 SL fixtures in 2011 = 857,610 (Avg: 9,124)=#FF0000**
% decrease = -6.06%

=#FF0000** Widnes fixtures for SL 2011 replaced by equivalent Crusaders fixtures against same opposition.

Why did you stop in 2003, at the height of the rivalry?
2002 - 13,631 - Bradford finished 2nd & finalists (out of 12) @ VP
2001 - 15,106 & 12,863 - 1st & champions (out of 12) @ VP
2000 - 21,237 & 19,623 - 3rd (out of 12)
1999 - 16,049 & 24,020 - 1st & finalist (out of 14)
1998 - 19,188 - 5th (out of 12)
1997 - 16,542 - 1st (out of 12)
1996 - 10,229 - 3rd (out of 12)

Pre the disaster that is SL
1995 - 5,546 - 7th (out of 11)
1994/95 - 6,980 - 7th (out of 16)
1993/94 - 7,538 - 2nd (out of 16)
1992/93 - 8,659 - 3rd (out of 14)
1991/92 - 8,796 - 11th (out of 14)
1990/91 - 10,858 - 7th (out of 14)
1989/90 - 11,441 - 4th (out of 14)
1988/89 - 8,663 - 8th (out of 14)
1987/88 - 6,060 - 4th (out of 14)
1986/87 - 4,710 - 7th (out of 16)
1985/86 - 3,612 - 12th (out of 16)

You are seriously miss the point here!

This fixture, along with the rest of the clubs seems to have attracted people over the past 10 years. For some reason these people have left.

WHY?

Thats the real problem, not petty squabbling about how many people attended 20 years ago. Why can we not hang onto our fans, how can we get them back.

That's what we want is instead of endless stats, figures and percentages. We want answers, reasons and solutions.

I haven't missed the point, that was more a riposte to William's previous postings which can be roughly summed up as "SL=disaster : pre-SL=wonderful"
I think the reasons for the decline in Bradford v Leeds crowds are a mix of:
Bradford being a far poorer team
The recession
& Bradford's mismanagement

As for other clubs, well I haven't followed the thread in full but it looked as though, in general, crowds are down on last season but equal or up on previous seasons. Of which partly I think is due to the recession but partly not. I don't think anyone can conclusively point to 1 reason as to why crowds are down on last season, although there were one-off factors in last seasons attendances.

As I've said before, Saints' home games are down between 2,000 and 3,000 on last year. All of them are. You could write the script now for the remaining home games of the season! However, all our gates are drastically up on 2011 when we spent the season at Widnes. In turn, our gates in 2011 were drastically down on the final season at Knowsley Road in 2010. In Saints' case you have to take bias into consideration. We slumped when fans were asked to travel a couple of miles up the road to Widnes. We boomed when a whole host of partners and children of season ticket holders bought one year season tickets and turned up to nosey at the new stadium.

I'd say this year's figures are a more accurate representation of the core supporter base in St Helens, as evidenced by our gates in the final year at Knowsley Road.

What about ticket and season ticket prices? Are they more realistic this season? If so then I'm sure that will have impacted the supporter turnout this year.

True, plus of course last year it was promoted as the "Last Ever" Bradford v Leeds and I know many fans, including myself, turned up to that game to try and put a few quid in Bradford's coffers.
Just speaking from a personal point of view, a pay cut (on top of a few years of below inflation rises) plus rising costs like energy and food has had it's effect. I've cut down on the amount of away games I go to. I used to go to around 7/8/9 out of 13, this season I'm only going to 2 or 3. I've less money available and when the cost of fuel is relatively high it's a cost I can't really afford anymore, especially if the game is on tv.

Aggregate attendance for this round is 68707 for an average of 9815, 3rd. highest of the season. Out comes the sun, back come the speccies.

The William Eve mistake of the week.

What are the odds on 2 games on the same night getting exactly the SAME attendance.......hmmmmm!

Huddersfield v warrington 2013, 8585
Huddersfield v warrington 2012, 8184

disgusting

A very slight increase at Cas KR yesterday on 2012.

Typical that every time Hudds get a big turnout the team fail to perform! (the key exception being the Wigan game this year)

Two increases yesterday then? Wondered why our attendance stats man has yet to appear since these games, yet is on here within minutes to confirm any downturn in attendances.

Hopefully he is banned.

Why?
RL fans have a pathalogical aversion to the truth sometimes.....I was "outed" as a Union troll in 2009 for suggesting that the RLIF/RFL could learn from the IRB/RFU.

Wishing someone was banned only goes to show you've lost the debate already.....polish the turd all you like, it's still a turd!

William is simply pointing out that after much blow and gusto from the RFL last year, they have remained strangely quiet on what to date is an alarming, but AS YET, not unfixable drop in interest in the game in 2013.

Yes, it doesn't make nice reading, but like anything in life, you need to face your demons before you can do something about it. It would seem the RFL would rather congratulate themselves on insignificant partnerships to replace sponsors, TV rights "sold" to access TV and flogging 1,500 tickets in St Albans to the RLWC rather than facing the not so insignificant problems of SL fan drop off, reduced TV viewers, embarrassing Challenge Cup attendances and total lack of interest in naming rights sponsors for the RLWC 2013 or their flagship SL.

Yes some games bucked the trend last weekend.....but one swallow doesn't make a spring and there's a fair few more games needed to make up the shortfall to date compared to 2012.

Read my post towards him on the previous page, which he conveniently ignored.. don't think I'm the one who lost the debate, buddy .

As I say, like his posts or not, they do point to a decline in attendances thus far this season.

You never know, they 50k or so missing fans may well flock back when the weather picks up, but as it stands today, his posts to have a valid point.
You calling him a troll doesn't back up your assertions that SL is better than what we had back in the day....we already know we are better off now, but as it stands, 2013 is not currently as good as 2012 off the pitch and that's the point young billy made at the start.....as in the RFL will back slap when they think they deserve it, but rarely to they address bad news full on...they'd rather stare at their feet and hope the problem goes away.

BTW. Huddersfield giants deserve a medal for their initiative in the CC this weekend....as do Leeds who I am sure had to buy into the idea....more clubs should do this. London are charging 15 notes on the promise of a pie......better to ditch the pie and offer 5 quid in IMHO!

I don't understand why League fans insist on having tickets so cheap time and time again yet at the same time complain that the RFL don't bring in enough money. Its hardly the most expensive sport to follow yet people always complain, and say tickets should be so cheap. Whilst it can work on occasions in the long run it cheapens the sport, and fans continually expect cheap tickets otherwise they wont turn up.

Are we really a sport where fans will only turn up in numbers when ticket prices are reduced???? Wheres the long term future in that???

Completely agree. Cheap tickets are acceptable as a means of short-term promotion, but only if part of a genuine plan for retaining a good number of those when prices become realistic. For me, one of the things we should be focusing on is 'added-value' - that is, improving the match day experience. Like it or not, one of the things you have to accept if you want full stadia with decent ticket prices is the equivalent of the 'prawn sandwich brigade' - this is what sustains Union in particular. Now, much as I love a pie, my wife doesn't, and she's not particularly keen on the kids eating the boiled remains of some poor beast under the name 'hot dog'. I've often thought how much easier it would be for me to bring those 3 extra people if there was decent catering - pitch side barbecues anyone?, etc. Seriously, we underestimate the power of the human stomach...most of the time the only reason I go to the cinema is because I fancy a massive tub of popcorn. For that matter, sell popcorn! Seriously, subconsciously or otherwise, it works. You'll get a far better return on investment by improvements to catering (including reducing queues of course) than some half-baked half-time show. Charge full price but give everyone a *really good* free streak sandwich and a beer or whatever.

On the cheap tickets argument, it was interesting to read that the Bundesliga offer cheap tickets. Bayern Munich offer season tickets for £65. There were only 3 clubs who were in the red last year as well. If I were the RFL, I'd be asking how they manage it

See this is the part that makes no sense. Will's motive for doing this (and those that support him) seems to be that Nigel Wood came out last year and made some noise about good attendances but won't come out and make noise about a drop in attendance.......but why (as RL fans) would you want him to highlight this in the press?

All the time on these boards people are talking about improving the games image (hell we even had a thread on Nigel Woods jacket!!) so how exactly would it help if he came out, IN WORLD CUP YEAR TOO BTW, and announce a drop in figures......i don't think you'd find many if any people who if in his position would do that.

Absolutely no good could come of him being publicly vocal about half a season of results especially when the reasons vary from club to club, me thinks some people on here just want a "told you SL is struggling" moment to jump on so their gloomy predictions gather some weight.

Apparently, the reason Mr.Eve has gone missing is because he's gone to the doctor to get some treatment for his premature extrapolation.