SL teams could easily run both a U19 and a reserve team. The cost can be (relatively) minimal for both (if you're not paying 1st team contract salaries), and would help expand the player pool that we desperately need in the UK.

The number of players of the required standard will only increase if we provide the opportunities and pathways for progression.

Would it expand the player pool? How many of Halifax squad were originally in SL academies who would e stayed there instead of making the move to Halifax? SL clubs keeping enough players on to run reserve teams would trickle down to the lower leagues and impact their squad numbers and quality. Despite Halifax’s success with reserves you talk about your club has just signed a young HB/FB from Leeds called Reece Champan-Smith. Why? Why not just use your own academy/reserve Halves?

WRT cost with Leeds it’s about whether that money can be spent better elsewhere. This is a more detailed account of what Hetherington has said (instead of people just focusing on the are academy is our reserve line)

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“We’re all fishing in the same pond for the same few talented players here, and I think our focus should be on widening those pools and working with community clubs to get more youngsters playing the game.”

Hetherington cited a figure in excess of £100,000 for Leeds to set up a reserve team from scratch if it was made mandatory in 2020 – and questioned whether there are better areas for the sport to be spending such sums of money.

“I wonder whether that money would be better spent in getting seven, eight and nine year olds playing our game,” he said.

“We should be providing better pathways for players to come into our Academy, instead of on 20 and 21 year olds who are catered for via the Championship. Luke Briscoe is a fine example; he came out of our system but we always believed he had the potential.

“He was initially too old to stay with us, so he went into the Championship, played for Featherstone and, through his own ability, has now achieved a Super League contract.

“That’s a great example of how the Championship has become a perfectly good breeding ground for the game.”

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So is it any worst to spend money on getting kids playing the game in the first place which helps the sport as a whole rather than spend it to insure they stay at your particular club which mostly just helps that one club.

I can see how an enlarged pool of bog standard older players on diminutive contracts might appeal to some and yes, it might assist the occasional late developer. Will it really raise standards? I don't really see how - talking about the top level of the game here - unless clubs are actually prepared to contract more full time pros than they currently do. Which, given realities of the cap might actually result in a lowering of standards, i.e. more players of lower quality needed to fulfil a lengthy fixture list. But as I said to Vasty, I don't regard the current set up as perfect. But surely it would make better sense to exempt a small number of players from current age restrictions and allow open age but with a predominance of U19 participants?

What you WMDC Hetherington are not taking into account is the late developer which is odd as Hetherington was one.

DR doesn’t cater for them because a late bloomer is not really what they want.

This is the crux of my argument, reserve grade allows experimentation where U19’s and DR doesn’t. In the early 90’s loads of players went on from reserve footy and trials to become stars - MartinOffia was one - he wasn’t a big RU name, who’d be brave enough to blood him in the first team now? Who’d want him DR? He was too old for the Academy. If he turned up now the only place he could play would be the championship or NL one - a place that has in recent times become a player graveyard.

Well said if we do and I hope we do will we see a another some one who is given a go to see what they are like before signing when the A teams were around they was lots

Well said if we do and I hope we do will we see a another some one who is given a go to see what they are like before signing when the A teams were around they was lots

Having seen Hetherington in his pomp I'd say Offiah does more to strengthen your argument


Seriously, what you write is true for the early 90s. But now the reality is that older players would want a full time contract. And not the money that typically gets paid to youngsters either. I agree that DR isn't a good fit for the late bloomer but if, as I suggested, a reserve grade comprising mainly juniors with a handful of what would no be over-age players was to start then that might be a better compromise than further over-stretching playing budgets. Nothing to say that the likes of say, Brough - who has a bagful of tricks that could be passed onto youngsters very profitably - couldn't be enabled to pass on his skills at this level once his first grade career was on the wind-down.

Reece [uwill[/u be one of our reserve halves in 2019. If he develops further, then he'll get his chance in the 1st team.

Thats a bad example, Offiah maybe was not a big name in union, but was a natural league player, came to widnes at 20 and was a sensation, offiah was never going to be a project player at any club, if he came along now with that sort of searing pace and yards quiker than the next best flyer he would still be straight into super league.

There are late develepers yes, but not many, and if they are that good they will find there way back to the top, but the idea that the next Offiah Schofield etc will not be found due to clubs not having a A team us laughble.

No it's a perfect example and Offiah was very much a gamble, but then we didn't have the gift of hindsight at the time



Brough was a late developer for starters as was Steadman and Lowes off the top of my head - neither of those two came up through the ranks of a 'big club' or does he not fit into your silly little scenario - Scofield was never a late bloomer so why even mention him.

The A teams used to be full of hidden gems and trialists who went on to do great stuff. The only thing laughable is you

No it hasn’t and England’s WC Final 17 featured 3 in Hill, Walmart and Gale who made their way playing lower league. The idea that a late bloomer is somehow doomed if he’s playing Championship or lower rugby just doesn’t stack up as much as you want to portray it as. You mention Brough in another post, he was at Wakefield as a youngster, didn’t do anything and left to play lower league and it worked out fine for him, would his career have turned out the same if he was stuck playing reserve rugby for a few years hoping to get a game here and there? Maybe, maybe not but there’s enough examples to show playing for a lower league club can do you no harm.

offiah was a rep player in Union and on the verge of England selection. so it was not the gamble you make out. Dough laughton did not gamble on signing talent. the previous poster made out that Offiah may have stuggled and not got a cjance without reserves, but he was straight into first team any never looked back. Jonathan davies at Widnes only played about 3-4 reserv games before going into first team, i used Schofield as he was an example of a great player who were ready made super star players like Offiah. but i can use Hanley who compared to Schofield was a late developer, schofield was a Gb international at 18 and Hanly who was a couple years older was only just breaking through into Bradford side.

Brough Steadman Lowes were all playing in what was then division 2 (or 3 with brough) they developed in the first team at lower division clubs not A team rugby, so you have confirmed my argument to be correct, late bloomers still have a pathway to the top without a reserve team. so go on name all these hidden trialists and gems that went to the top via the reserves.
once again you cannot come back with debate you simply resort to name calling and try to belittle people.

People use Jamie Peacock as an example of late bloomers but he went to Fev on loan and had a spell in nswrl before breaking into first team at Bradford.

If reserves are such a bad idea according to Hetherington why do all other SL clubs seem to see the benefit of them? (source League Express article by Aaron Bower). They may be being disingenuous but they all seem to be saying they'd run a reserves if all clubs agreed to do it. Everyone involved in player development I speak to seems to think it's a really good idea too. Are they just trying to conjure up jobs for the boys? I'm not so sure.

Neither am I though I think that different advantages probably apply for different teams. For instance I can see there would be advantages to certain turd-polishing sides who don't bring through too many of their own to have a larger pool of bog standard players on low wages available for them to choose from. But for clubs with good track records of developing players to be strongly in favour then there must be some merit. You'd think. But if the eleven are so much in favour, then how come only two are prepared to put their hands in their pockets? This doesn't need Leeds' involvement for the others to make it work for them.

if its only leeds not in favour then why are only two clubs proposing running a reserve side. seems to me 9 clubs either dont want one at all or just meeh to the idea.

a per usual some people using this to suite there anti Leeds anti Hetherington agenda, making out its Leeds stopping it happening when 8 other clubs are not wanting to run a team either, as you say if it is only Leeds not running a reserves then the other 11 super league clubs can still do it, the fact they are not doing it says they don't want to.

Because they’re just looking at the benefit to them personally. Like I pointed out previously there’s several notable players in SL that Leeds probably could’ve kept if they had reserves but they’re prepared to accept them ending up at rivals.



They have been saying it for about 4 years now yet we’ve gone from 4 SL teams with reserves down to just 2. So how badly do they want them? Leeds are the only one saying they won’t be by the sounds of it, are we really led to believe you can’t have a reserve league with the other 11 and/or a couple of the Championship clubs.

Whilst people may not agree with Leeds’ view you at least have to credit them that they’ve made their view crystal clear and stood by it, not say one and do opposite like many others or flip flop in and out of running a reserve team.

[url=https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby-league/wigan-warriors/wigan-warriors-star-dom-manfredi-s-plea-to-make-reserves-mandatory-1-9466773Dom Manfredi's speaking sense[/url

It's not really "speaking sense" though to insist on them being mandatory, because there is really no need for them to be. As has been discussed at length, you can very easily create a reserve team competition with the clubs that have already expressed an interest in one. Indeed, if Leeds and (I assume Catalans for obvious logistical reasons) are the only two clubs who aren't interested, you can easily create a 10-team SL Reserve League, or introduce Bradford, Fax or whoever else to take their place.

There is no need for anything to be mandatory if the will to make this happen is as strong as we're led to believe it is.

Well that highlighted a problem with D/R in that you couldn’t do it when you reached the 8’s. But that’s not a problem anymore so wouldn’t face that same issue.

I suspect there'd be fewer takers if a reserves league was initiated once the necessary rules to make it work properly were announced. What, for example, would be appropriate penalties for sides scratching fixtures when they couldn't raise a side? Even the union reserves, with their 50+ player squads have been bedevilled with this, along with teams picking various dogsbodies in order to fulfil fixtures. There have been some right mullerings of their under-strength sides too.

Ironically Rob Burrow'scomments on the lad who's gone to Halifax sum up the need for a reserve competition better than anyone on here.

Hanley got into the Bradford side at 18, he also got into other things that restricted his development like other peoples houses!

Why does it? Luke Gale and Danny Brough were HB’s playing first team rugby down in the 3rd tier at the same age instead of reserves and both were back in SL in a couple of seasons and went on to become Man of Steel winners. No reason why Reece Champman Smith can’t do the same. Only thing is it might not be Leeds that ends up being the team that benefits in the long run but that’s a risk they’ll take that others won’t.