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| Quote I can name many memorable GB moments but struggle to recall most England results (bar the 2006 Sydney win), '"
The 23 - 12 win in Sydney was as Great Britain.
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| I would favour a return to GB too, as I think England has basically adopted all those players anyway. Funny how brough was scotish then English again when it dawned that scotland would never see a game against Oz or Nz.
Top players need the top profile, with the UK no player can be excluded from England selection.
Return to GB and one year out of 4 home nations for the WC.
however I do like the saxons v celts idea over, exiles. It's a representative game, it would allow those playing to be considered for GB selection. It can be played home and away. I would rather see that and some passion in playing for a shirt that gets representation rather than the current exiles concept which whilst well intended creates no passion as there is no exiles passionate supporters.
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| Quote ="jpk3lly"The 23 - 12 win in Sydney was as Great Britain.'"
Oops how did I type that!! England, of course, have failed to beat Australia since the GB split.
Well there you go, I can't really remember any great England RL moments. Actually, not true, I was at the 1995 semi-final and of course we beat the Aussies at Wembley in the opener.
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| Home nations should be the equivalent of SOO--in other words, part of the selection process for international RL, not the pinnacle of it. If the way to get selected was to pit yourself against the rest of the best GB had to offer then there would be more motivation to opt for Wales et al as players would need to go head to head with current place holders in order to knock them off their perch.
I also wonder if there would be any value (to the domestic game, at least) to barring non-SL players from selection like the Aussies do.
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| Quote ="roughyedspud"
2. theres not a single welsh,scots or irish player that would make the GB team anyway...the entire squad would be current england players.....'"
So you don't think Pat Richards would make the GB squad? Lee Briers? Or what about Damien Blanch or even that thug Henderson (am I right in thinking he's played for Scotland?) of Catalans?
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| I don't mind the idea of a Celtic Nations rep side. It's up there with a Pacific Isles side for me.
Think it would be good to see a 3 week tour from Tonga, Fiji and Samoa to take on Ireland, Wales and Scotland, with a couple of test between Celtic and Pacific XIIIs afterwards.
But can I ask, why Tigers?
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| Stupid waste of time.
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| Quote ="Rob from Erith"So you don't think Pat Richards would make the GB squad? Lee Briers? Or what about Damien Blanch or even that thug Henderson (am I right in thinking he's played for Scotland?) of Catalans?'"
pat richards........not now.....maybe a couple of years ago yeah....interesting he could have switch from ireland to england via the residency laws....but he never has
lee briers.....well he's retired....and he was never selected for GB when he played anyway
damien blanche.........have you seen ryan hall,tom briscoe & josh charnley lately?
ian henderson?....over roby? or even rob burrow or sinfield?? lol
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| Quote ="Wellsy13"I don't mind the idea of a Celtic Nations rep side. It's up there with a Pacific Isles side for me.
Think it would be good to see a 3 week tour from Tonga, Fiji and Samoa to take on Ireland, Wales and Scotland, with a couple of test between Celtic and Pacific XIIIs afterwards.
But can I ask, why Tigers?'"
tigers? why not? lol
its funny you mentioned a pacific island rep side........it's likely to be formed to play in the 2014 4nations.
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| Quote ="Cronus"No, and I think it's a terrible idea. Another half-baked forced entity in a desperate bid to create a competitive team. I highly doubt 'Celtic' fans would turn out in number to support such an odd creation, and the message it sends is demeaning to RL in general - a weak sport hooked on desperately creating sides in the name of...well, what exactly? The sporting world would be laughing their heads off at us (again).
As for the players - well, let's say your mother is English and your father Welsh. You can opt for England RL or Wales and Celtic Tigers. Seriously?? A much as I find the England RL brand naff, it's a million times stronger than Wales RL or some false touring side which will still be a weak side. Instead, give that player the option of Wales RL and Great Britain they'll be far more tempted to turn out for Wales.
RL has to fact facts. We are not strong in Wales/Scotland/Ireland, certainly not strong enough to be putting purely homegrown teams out in their name. We have no roots there. Small steps are being made, certainly in Wales and that's the way to progress. Crusaders had the potential but were advanced far too quickly and were doomed to failure. These things take time - decades, even - but that's how you create a grounded team with a loyal fan base - develop roots from the ground up - not just create a club, throw it in and expect miracles. From that can develop a strong national side.
Peacock is absolutely correct. Great Britain was the pinnacle of British RL, the days of the 82/86/88/90/92/94/01/03 Ashes tours were epic and are ingrained on all who remember them. Even the Tri Nations meant more with GB fighting it out with the old enemy. That some executive decided to dispose of GB based on flawed logic is no reason not to reverse that dreadful decision.'"
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| Quote ="Cronus"You're asking the wrong question. How many of those currently opting for England qualify to opt for Wales, Scotland, Ireland whilst still having the opportunity to play for GB?
Look at the Wales squad from the 1995 World Cup. Ok, lots were RU converts, but many were RL lads who could have opted for England or Wales, and went for their ancestral country. Cunningham, Eyres, Cowie, Atcheson, Harris, Skerrett, Hall, Jones all played for GB and preferred Wales as their home nation. Would they have done that if the GB option hadn't been there?? If England were the only team touring and playing the big boys regularly?? Some, perhaps, but many would have gone for England.
Wrong. Which top-level player will opt for Wales, Scotland or Ireland if England are the only home nation with getting a regular shot at the big-time? Very few. Rhys Evans is the perfect example: as Welsh as they come and opts for England. He might not even make the squad (while his brother is already turning out for Wales) but he prefers to take that chance for the bigger games.
You then get Welsh supporters then saying "we don't want no plastic Taffs" - well make your mind up, you didn't complain in 1995 and there sure as hell isn't the talent in Wales right now to compete. Why not bolster your squad with several higher quality players - everyone benefits.
And looking beyond that, Great Britain is a far bigger brand than 'England RL'. I've never bought an England shirt and never will, they look forced and naff, however a few months ago I tracked down bought a 2001 GB shirt (the Guinness one) because I still love the look and the tradition. I'm not enthused by the 'England RL' brand whereas watching the GB boys had my heart bursting out of my chest. I can name many memorable GB moments but struggle to recall most England results (bar the 2006 Sydney win), simple because I find I'm not that bothered. Oh, I'll watch England but I'm not going to fork out a fortune following them everywhere. That said, I'll be at Salford on Sunday.
The problem has always been that while the logic for removing GB appeared sound at first glance, with a little examination it's heavily flawed.'"
most of what you just said is so one eyed it's just plain stupid
1. please prove that Great britian RL is a far bigger brand than England RL.....i'd bet you a pint that the RFL earns for money from england than they did from GB..
2. aside from getting your memorable wins mixed up lol.....how england beating the reigning world champions in 2009 to make the 4 nations final.....and beating the reigning 4nations champions to make the 2011 4nations final how they are'nt memorable moment just goes to show how blinkered you are...
Quote Look at the Wales squad from the 1995 World Cup. Ok, lots were RU converts, but many were RL lads who could have opted for England or Wales, and went for their ancestral country. Cunningham, Eyres, Cowie, Atcheson, Harris, Skerrett, Hall, Jones all played for GB and preferred Wales as their home nation. Would they have done that if the GB option hadn't been there?? If England were the only team touring and playing the big boys regularly?? Some, perhaps, but many would have gone for England.'"
introduce the "celtic tigers" and then england won't be the only touring team would they!
bring back GB now and players like brough,mcllorum,evans,bridge,harrison etc will still opt to switch to england because england play in big comps every year! so it would'nt make any difference if they have the chance to play for GB every 4 years!!
having the celtic tigers play in big games every year,against england or playing off v france for 4 nations or going on tours down under...GIVES PLAYERS A REASON TO STICK WITH WALES,SCOTLAND OR IRELAND...
and another thing.......i've yet to hear from anyone official from wales,scotland or ireland support bring back GB...and i doubt we will.
Quote The problem has always been that while the logic for removing GB appeared sound at first glance, with a little examination it's heavily flawed.'"
during the final years of GB (2001-2007) can you tell me the level of development of the game in wales,scotland & ireland...........i'll answer that for you...ABSOLUTELY COCK ALL!
now go look at whats happened in wales since 2008....and tell everyone "its heavily flawed"
ps wales under 18's beat scotland under 18's at the weekend.......that would'nt have happened 6 years ago..
but yeah scrapping GB was heavily flawed
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| Why invent a totally new brand (after a year you'll all want to cancel it anyway...) when we already have what everyone wants, Great Britain. Get them to tour Aus + NZ every four years. Problem solved.
No-one in Aus or NZ wants to watch the Celtic Tigers. Give them the GB Lions however...
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| but not everyone wants GB....
and england already tour australia & NZ every 2 years..........so what would be so special about the same england players going on tour every 4 years as GB????
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this would'nt have happened without scrapping GB
www.walesrugbyleague.co.uk/artic ... -centre-is
Quote THE SECOND stage of development at our Wales Rugby League Elite Performance Centre Deeside Leisure was revealed last week with the opening of our Elite Performance Gym supported and funded by Sport Wales.
Wales Rugby League President Mike Nicholas opened the facility alongside Graham Williams from Sport Wales along with 20 delegates.
Since the WRL officially opened the facility in May, the North Wales Crusaders Under-18s have developed and training at the performance base, there have been two coaching workshops with over 50 people in attendance, the Wales international squad train there and now the North Wales Under-14s have had their first session part of a 20-week programme developing core skills.
The Under-14s, after their two ten-week blocks, will showcase their skills in an Origin Series against South and West Wales U-14s,while the Wales wheelchair international squad who will be competing in the World Cup next year, had their first session.
North Wales Manager for Sport Wales Graham Williams said: "I’m delighted to see the Wales Rugby League Elite Performance Centre’s development coming to life.
"We’ve worked closely with Flintshire County Council and Wales Rugby League to establish a facility that will benefit not only the players of today but that will also support the talented players emerging from across North Wales for years to come. It’s a fantastic step forward for the sport in Wales and we look forward to seeing the Elite Performance Centre go from strength to strength."
Wales Rugby League North Wales Development officer Matt Pritchard said: "Thanks to Sport Wales and the support from Matt Hayes, Flintshire County Council Sport Development Manager, alongside Jeff Shields, Deeside Leisure Centre facility manager and Sian Williams, Operations Manager, this partnership has provided Wales Rugby League with the all in one facility we have needed and is a huge step in our development as a nation.
"It’s important we have everything in close proximity and everyone from Wales Rugby League who comes here feels part of the facility and knows its our elite performance base, It further highlights an innovative approach to facility development and showcases best practice in partnership development".'"
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this would'nt have happened without scrapping GB
www.walesrugbyleague.co.uk/artic ... -centre-is
Quote THE SECOND stage of development at our Wales Rugby League Elite Performance Centre Deeside Leisure was revealed last week with the opening of our Elite Performance Gym supported and funded by Sport Wales.
Wales Rugby League President Mike Nicholas opened the facility alongside Graham Williams from Sport Wales along with 20 delegates.
Since the WRL officially opened the facility in May, the North Wales Crusaders Under-18s have developed and training at the performance base, there have been two coaching workshops with over 50 people in attendance, the Wales international squad train there and now the North Wales Under-14s have had their first session part of a 20-week programme developing core skills.
The Under-14s, after their two ten-week blocks, will showcase their skills in an Origin Series against South and West Wales U-14s,while the Wales wheelchair international squad who will be competing in the World Cup next year, had their first session.
North Wales Manager for Sport Wales Graham Williams said: "I’m delighted to see the Wales Rugby League Elite Performance Centre’s development coming to life.
"We’ve worked closely with Flintshire County Council and Wales Rugby League to establish a facility that will benefit not only the players of today but that will also support the talented players emerging from across North Wales for years to come. It’s a fantastic step forward for the sport in Wales and we look forward to seeing the Elite Performance Centre go from strength to strength."
Wales Rugby League North Wales Development officer Matt Pritchard said: "Thanks to Sport Wales and the support from Matt Hayes, Flintshire County Council Sport Development Manager, alongside Jeff Shields, Deeside Leisure Centre facility manager and Sian Williams, Operations Manager, this partnership has provided Wales Rugby League with the all in one facility we have needed and is a huge step in our development as a nation.
"It’s important we have everything in close proximity and everyone from Wales Rugby League who comes here feels part of the facility and knows its our elite performance base, It further highlights an innovative approach to facility development and showcases best practice in partnership development".'"
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| Quote ="roughyedspud"most of what you just said is so one eyed it's just plain stupid
'"
As opposed to some ridiculous idea: "I know, let's create ANOTHER artificial team"!!
Quote 1. please prove that Great britian RL is a far bigger brand than England RL.....i'd bet you a pint that the RFL earns for money from england than they did from GB..'"
Any evidence? I won't argue they don't - it's probably easier with online marketing and an online retail outlet.
But I'd bet a pint with a similar set-up for Great Britain alongside England, they could earn more.
Quote 2. aside from getting your memorable wins mixed up lol.....how england beating the reigning world champions in 2009 to make the 4 nations final.....and beating the reigning 4nations champions to make the 2011 4nations final how they are'nt memorable moment just goes to show how blinkered you are...'"
You're using a couple of wins against NZ as proof of how strong 'England RL' are? They're almost as inconsistent as we are! 2 wins against NZ, zero wins against Aus - we can't even beat the Exiles!!
Quote introduce the "celtic tigers" and then england won't be the only touring team would they!
bring back GB now and players like brough,mcllorum,evans,bridge,harrison etc will still opt to switch to england because england play in big comps every year! so it would'nt make any difference if they have the chance to play for GB every 4 years!!
having the celtic tigers play in big games every year,against england or playing off v france for 4 nations or going on tours down under...GIVES PLAYERS A REASON TO STICK WITH WALES,SCOTLAND OR IRELAND...'"
Another fake team for meaningless games...just what RL needs. Wonderful.
People with Celtic roots are generally very proud of them. Give them the option to play for that country and they'll generally snap it up. However, while Wales, Scotland and Ireland are -poor teams mostly competing in meaningless competitions, and while England are still the only ones guaranteed regular games against the big boys, their best players will always opt for England. Reintroduce GB and these players can opt for Wales, etc while still getting a shot at big games/tours against the big guns - exactly as happened in the past! I'm not sure what's do difficult to understand about that?
A Celtic team would still be a -poor team, made up predominantly of Welsh players. They would still get spanked by England, NZ or Aus, indeed any SL or NRL side. Utterly, completely pointless. Top level players are not going to flock to the 'Celtic Tigers' (lol) banner.
Quote and another thing.......i've yet to hear from anyone official from wales,scotland or ireland support bring back GB...and i doubt we will.'"
Shock. Someone working for the Welsh, Scottish or Irish RL doesn't support the reintroduction of an international entity above their level? Well there's a surprise.
Quote during the final years of GB (2001-2007) can you tell me the level of development of the game in wales,scotland & ireland...........i'll answer that for you...ABSOLUTELY COCK ALL!
now go look at whats happened in wales since 2008....and tell everyone "its heavily flawed" '"
Tell me about some development in Wales that is a DIRECT consequence of the removal of GB?
The rise of Crusaders and now South Wales probably have more to do with the growth of the game, plus the RFL introducing development officers and generally pulling their fingers out as far as development is concerned - and not just in Wales.
And please explain why the existence of a GB should adversely affect the development of the sport in Wales? It gives Welsh players something to aspire to, it gives players with Welsh roots more incentive to opt for Wales, it brings Welsh support to the GB banner.
GB is a team, not a national development operation. The players gather probably every other year and play in GB shirts. They don't need development funds, development officers, permanent facilities, etc - all they need are operational funds every so often and some marketing funds. There is no reason is should detract from any development.
Quote ps wales under 18's beat scotland under 18's at the weekend.......that would'nt have happened 6 years ago..'"
??? A Wales u-18s wouldn't have beaten a Scotland u-18s 6 years ago? Were Scotland u-18s a dominant force 6 years ago? WTF are you on about? Actually, it DID happen - and more than 6 years ago:
Home Nations Championship 2004: Wales 34 Scotland 28
Friendly Match 2005: Wales 36 Scotland 12
European Championships 2006: Wales 14 Scotland 14 (ooh nearly a win!)
Home Nations Championship 2007: Scotland 10 Wales 68
Home Nations Championship 2009: Wales 30 Scotland 6
Quote but yeah scrapping GB was heavily flawed'"
Yes, it was.
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| you've contradicted yourself so many times in that post its funny......
you go on about "yet another meaningless team"...........GB is meaning less cos 17 englishmen does'nt represent the GREAT BRITISH ISLES!!
you say celts are proud and would jump at the chance to play for their nation.....and with GB around they might get the chance once every 4 years to play the big boys....WITH A CELTIC TIGERS TEAM THE PROUD CELTS WILL BE REPRESENTING THEIR CELTIC ROOTS EVERY YEAR AGAINST THE BIG BOYS!!! your telling me they would'nt jump at that??
you say that all the development in wales is'nt a result of GB disbanding..........OH IT IS SUNSHINE..everything from youth development,spreading the game in schools and getting together with SPORTwales to build the performance is a direct result of having the spotlight turned off GB and onto the "home nations"........thats exactly why you won't hear from the welsh..or scots..or the irish about bring back GB..COS YOU ARE RIGHT..THEY DON'T WANT A TEAM (GB) SMASHING RIGHT OVER THE TOP OF THEM AND STEALING THAT SPOTLIGHT AGAIN!!!
the only people that want GB back is flat capped one eyed englishmen who think wearing a red & blue chevron will magically make 17 englishmen better....IT WON'T!!
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| The first thing I thought on hearing this was the Pacific Island (All Stars) that periodically crops up in NRL discussions. Not really sure what I think, but I do believe if players have the chance to get paid in higher class internationals they will generally review their opinion of their nation to make sure they can play. If a Celtic team could fare slightly better against England, NZ etc, maybe they would get more game time. But my initial reaction like most is that it seems pretty stupid, but I'd rather consider it first because there could be some merits.
Just as a question, how do national teams work in RL? I have no idea, it seems most sports allow the sub-nations in the UK compete seperately, how is this viewed as different from say USA/German or Australian (or any other federation you fancy) states competing? I suppose the Cook Islands comes under this discussion too with its ties to New Zealand.
On the other hand, what is the view on multiple sovereign nations competing as one team? After all, that is what GB+I Lions would be in the modern day (and will have been for so, so long now). What would be the difference between this and, say, a Pacific Islands team? I mean they are both made up, or tied together culturally or whatever BS justifies this stuff at the moment (would a Melanesia RL and Polynesia RL be more 'correct' like the Lions?). Obviously golf has a 'made up' Europe team playing against a country, RU has their own 'made up' Lions, and football is a giant messup between FIFA and Olympics, cricket has made up teams (West Indies?) too... well you get the picture.
I know that the rules are basically "whatever we feel like atm" but is there any precedent for this sort of thing?
ETA: Let alone even starting on Ireland...
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| Quote you go on about "yet another meaningless team"...........GB is meaning less cos 17 englishmen does'nt represent the GREAT BRITISH ISLES!! '"
Over 100 years of history, dozens of great moments, epic Ashes series, etc, etc - meaningless. I think we can probably start to gently ignore most of your opinions at this point.
Great Britain hasn't often been represented by 17 Englishmen - simply because players could still play for their home or ancestral nation and also for GB. I get the feeling this point isn't sinking home with you.
Quote you say celts are proud and would jump at the chance to play for their nation.....and with GB around they might get the chance once every 4 years to play the big boys....WITH A CELTIC TIGERS TEAM THE PROUD CELTS WILL BE REPRESENTING THEIR CELTIC ROOTS EVERY YEAR AGAINST THE BIG BOYS!!! your telling me they would'nt jump at that??'"
Utter rubbish. "Here, you can play for England in front of 20-40,000 against the Aussies and Kiwis almost every year, or for the brand new 'Celtic Tigers' in front of 2-3,000 against France, Fiji and the Lebanon in some manufactured competition".
No, they wouldn't jump at that. It would still be a half-baked, idiotic creation, and still weak on the international stage, with zero chance of competing with Aus, NZ or even England.
Quote you say that all the development in wales is'nt a result of GB disbanding..........OH IT IS SUNSHINE..everything from youth development,spreading the game in schools and getting together with SPORTwales to build the performance Centre is a direct result of having the spotlight turned off GB and onto the "home nations"........thats exactly why you won't hear from the welsh..or scots..or the irish about bring back GB..COS YOU ARE RIGHT..THEY DON'T WANT A TEAM (GB) SMASHING RIGHT OVER THE TOP OF THEM AND STEALING THAT SPOTLIGHT AGAIN!!!'"
Stop shouting.
Yes, I agree development has moved on. The RFL started investing in Development Officers in the community (not just in Wales, all over the UK). Crusaders made great inroads initially. South Wales are doing their bit. The profile of RL in Wales is slowly growing.
I'm not sure why you think GB would (ahem) "smash right over the top of them" though - GB is just a team that gets together for tours every couple of years, but also offers something for all Home Nations players to aspire to. You're being a bit of a drama queen.
Quote the only people that want GB back is flat capped one eyed englishmen who think wearing a red & blue chevron will magically make 17 englishmen better....IT WON'T!!'"
Or perhaps those who love the wonderful heritage of Great Britain Rugby League and remember the heady days of the Ashes series, and what they represent. You can choose to ignore that if you like, more fool you.
I know you think you've come up with some inspired idea, and no offence, but it's bllocks, it really is.
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| A GB Lions tour every 4yrs and Aussie/NZ full tours here as well and we play them as GB
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| How are the Celtic Tigers anymore of an artificial team than Great Britain & Ireland Lions?
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| Would anyone actually watch a 'Celtic Tigers' team? I wouldn't, and I doubt anyone from Ireland, Scotland or Wales would to be honest.
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| Quote ="Cronus" As opposed to some ridiculous idea: "I know, let's create ANOTHER artificial team"!! '"
Again, how is it anymore artificial than a side that represents five separate nations (one sovereign nation, 4 constituent nations)? Or two sovereign nations (UK and Rep of Ireland) if you don't wanna go the constituent route?
GB & Ireland, or the British Isles, is not a country.
Quote ="Cronus"Any evidence? I won't argue they don't - it's probably easier with online marketing and an online retail outlet.
But I'd bet a pint with a similar set-up for Great Britain alongside England, they could earn more.'"
We can all have our opinions on this I guess as there's no way to prove it.
However, since we're all wagering, I'd bet a pint that changing from GB to England has made little significant difference to how much they get. However, I bet it's made a significant difference to Wales, Ireland and Scotland RL development.
Quote ="Cronus"icon_lol.gif You're using a couple of wins against NZ as proof of how strong 'England RL' are? They're almost as inconsistent as we are! 2 wins against NZ, zero wins against Aus - we can't even beat the Exiles!!'"
Are you arguing that there'd have been a different result had the team worn a different shirt?!
Quote ="Cronus"sleepy.gif Another fake team for meaningless games...just what RL needs. Wonderful.
People with Celtic roots are generally very proud of them. Give them the option to play for that country and they'll generally snap it up. However, while Wales, Scotland and Ireland are -poor teams mostly competing in meaningless competitions, and while England are still the only ones guaranteed regular games against the big boys, their best players will always opt for England. Reintroduce GB and these players can opt for Wales, etc while still getting a shot at big games/tours against the big guns - exactly as happened in the past! I'm not sure what's do difficult to understand about that?'"
I don't understand how the people with Celtic roots will snap up the chance to play for them, yet they now have more opportunity to and aren't? Wales, Scotland and Ireland would affectively be demoted to reserve sides under GB. The only time they wouldn't be would be the World Cup, and do you really think the majority of players who didn't have Celtic roots wouldn't still opt to play for the much stronger England side?
And if it was actually true, then wanting a GB side would affectively harm England's chances of winning the World Cup as genuine English players would be opting to represent the nations of their ancestry instead of their country of birth that developed them.
Quote ="Cronus"A Celtic team would still be a -poor team, made up predominantly of Welsh players. They would still get spanked by England, NZ or Aus, indeed any SL or NRL side. Utterly, completely pointless. Top level players are not going to flock to the 'Celtic Tigers' (lol) banner.'"
I disagree with them being mainly Welsh. But I do agree they wouldn't be much more competitive than their individual nations. But in time...?
Quote ="Cronus"Shock. Someone working for the Welsh, Scottish or Irish RL doesn't support the reintroduction of an international entity above their level? Well there's a surprise.'"
Translation: 3 of the 4 separate NGBs are against the idea of going back because they feel it would damage development in their nation.
Surely this is the biggest argument AGAINST going back that you accept yet still dismiss?
Quote ="Cronus"Tell me about some development in Wales that is a DIRECT consequence of the removal of GB?'"
I thought he just did?
The rise of Crusaders and now South Wales probably have more to do with the growth of the game, plus the RFL introducing development officers and generally pulling their fingers out as far as development is concerned - and not just in Wales.
And please explain why the existence of a GB should adversely affect the development of the sport in Wales? It gives Welsh players something to aspire to, it gives players with Welsh roots more incentive to opt for Wales, it brings Welsh support to the GB banner.'"
How does it give Welsh players more incentive? This is a myth.
Do the Welsh or Scottish or Irish want their teams taken away from them to form GB? The consensus appears to say no.
Quote ="Cronus"GB is a team, not a national development operation. The players gather probably every other year and play in GB shirts. They don't need development funds, development officers, permanent facilities, etc - all they need are operational funds every so often and some marketing funds. There is no reason is should detract from any development.'"
Except it takes away interest from Wales, Scotland and Ireland as they don't have a genuine national team they can realistically aspire to. Wales reserves isn't a national team.
Quote ="Cronus" Nations Championship 2004: Wales 34 Scotland 28
Friendly Match 2005: Wales 36 Scotland 12
European Championships 2006: Wales 14 Scotland 14 (ooh nearly a win!)
Home Nations Championship 2007: Scotland 10 Wales 68
Home Nations Championship 2009: Wales 30 Scotland 6
Yes, it was.'"
All results prior to 2008 were effectively B teams under GB. GB stops these games from being genuine tests.
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| Quote ="Wellsy13"How are the Celtic Tigers anymore of an artificial team than Great Britain & Ireland Lions?'" It's not, but it's 'traditional' and idiots on this forum can't get past that. You wonder how the sport has been so progressive over the years when its fans seem so resistant to any sort of positive change.
Great Britain is not returning. Bringing it back would serve no purpose at all. It would be a team of 17 Englishmen, just as it was in the past, just as the England team is now. The only thing it would achieve would be burying Wales, Scotland and Ireland by relegating them to 'B' status. People in those nations do not care about 'Great Britain' and almost certainly would not watch such a team, just as they didn't do so before. They also would probably be less inclined to watch their national teams because, although probably stronger due to being full of English ringers, they would be relegated to 'B' status and their matches would be meaningless. It makes absolutely no difference to England or English fans so I'm not sure why some feel so passionately about the subject. You can pretend that England are actually GB under a different name if it makes you happy. But bringing them back would be stupid, pointless and counter-productive.
As for 'Celtic Tigers', that is just stupid as hell and not even worth debating.
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| Another argument I don't get is people saying these Celtic sides would be stronger because they'd have more plastic Celts playing for them instead of them playing for England.
These same people also argue that Rangi Chase, Chris Heighington, et al shouldn't play for England because they're not English.
Have these people ever considered that this is how the Welsh, Scottish and Irish feel about English ringers in their sides?
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| Quote ="Wellsy13"Again, how is it anymore artificial than a side that represents five separate nations (one sovereign nation, 4 constituent nations)? Or two sovereign nations (UK and Rep of Ireland) if you don't wanna go the constituent route?
GB & Ireland, or the British Isles, is not a country.
'"
I don’t know about you, but my passport doesn’t mention England on the front. It says that it is a passport if The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It also says that I am a British citizen on the inside. England and Scotland haven’t been sovereign nations since 1707, Wales since 1284 and Northern Ireland (in varying forms, and without getting too deep in to the issues surrounding that) since 1801.
Now considering that like RU, RL treats the island of Ireland as one entity and avoids the geopolitical question over Eire/NI/Britain, Then if we had a side, which was a national side, then it would be a GB and Ireland side.
Saying that, I appreciate that the home nations need national representation, and I appreciate that switching back to GB&I would be very damaging to the home nations, I still struggle to see why we cant have both. That we play as home nations sometimes, and as a united GB other times.
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