Leeds
2009
v Catalans - 13,425
v Harlequins - 13,912

2010
v Catalans - 15,154
v Harlequins - 12,684

2011
v Catalans - 13,273
v Harlequins - 14,350

2012
v Catalans - 13,282
v London - 13,109

2013
Not played Catalans yet
v London - 12,855

Make of that what you will. A fall, but not by much, but then you would expect Leeds' crowds to hold up better than some other clubs.

[urlhttp://www.rlwc2013.com/rugby-league-world-news/article/916/rlwc2013-ticket-sales-benefit-from[/url“We are

Sorry, but I find it hard to believe that the majority of these tickets have not been sold to corporates and travel firms......35,000 final tickets may well be all true RL fans, but the claim that 70% of Wembley buyers are new points to either competition prizes or travel firms. We've heard this noise before from the RFL regarding the 44k at Wembley a few years back....something along the lines of 50% London based purchases.

I don't have a problem if there are significant numbers of corporate buyers (yes, it can go over the top in some sports, but that's the last problem RL is likely to have for a long time!). I'm more interested in how many may have gone to travel firms - especially if they're returnable in any way.

go to the tubee site and type in

"The Rugby League Experience Tommy Raudonikis RLWC 2013 Tour Host "


...and then pray this lot haven't bought 10,000 tickets on a sale or return basis

Cut Tommy some slack mate.

If you fancy looking for the Loch Ness monster in the Lake District, sounds like a good trip to me.

So having ignored a good news story about ticket sales, you have now spent two pages speculating on a made up situation where they have been sold on a sale or return basis.

Pretty much par for the course.

Quote ="SmokeyTA"So having ignored a good news story about ticket sales, you have now spent two pages speculating on a made up situation where they have been sold on a sale or return basis. Pretty much par for the course.'" Never said they were, I don't know, but forgive me for not always taking things spewed by the RFL at face value before I decide whether or not its good news. If this is a case where we can take it at face value, great. Do you know if the sales so far include sales to travel firms, etc.? Or is that totally irrelevant to you? (because if Nigel says its good it must be good) After all, they've picked him to be the first image you see on the RLWC site: www.rlwc2013.com/world_cup Genius.

Quote ="SmokeyTA"So having ignored a good news story about ticket sales, you have now spent two pages speculating on a made up situation where they have been sold on a sale or return basis. Pretty much par for the course.'" Never said they were, I don't know, but forgive me for not always taking things spewed by the RFL at face value before I decide whether or not its good news. If this is a case where we can take it at face value, great. Do you know if the sales so far include sales to travel firms, etc.? Or is that totally irrelevant to you? (because if Nigel says its good it must be good) After all, they've picked him to be the first image you see on the RLWC site: www.rlwc2013.com/world_cup Genius.

Quote ="RLBandit"Never said they were, I don't know, but forgive me for not always taking things spewed by the RFL at face value before I decide whether or not its good news.'" Yet you take Mr Eve's word as gospel. Wierd. Quote If this is a case where we can take it at face value, great. Do you know if the sales so far include sales to travel firms, etc.? Or is that totally irrelevant to you? (because if Nigel says its good it must be good) After all, they've picked him to be the first image you see on the RLWC site: www.rlwc2013.com/world_cup Genius.'" Its irrelevant because i couldnt care how they are sold. If by travel companies, corporates, whatever its of no consequence. Tickets sold are sold, thats what we are setting out to do sell tickets. What im not going to do is invent a problem in my head, pretend it is real even though i have no real evidence for it at all other than my imagination then complain about it. Ill leave that to you. And if you let your creepy obsession with Nigel Wood drop for a little while you would see there is something else in that image.

Quote ="RLBandit"Never said they were, I don't know, but forgive me for not always taking things spewed by the RFL at face value before I decide whether or not its good news.'" Yet you take Mr Eve's word as gospel. Wierd. Quote If this is a case where we can take it at face value, great. Do you know if the sales so far include sales to travel firms, etc.? Or is that totally irrelevant to you? (because if Nigel says its good it must be good) After all, they've picked him to be the first image you see on the RLWC site: www.rlwc2013.com/world_cup Genius.'" Its irrelevant because i couldnt care how they are sold. If by travel companies, corporates, whatever its of no consequence. Tickets sold are sold, thats what we are setting out to do sell tickets. What im not going to do is invent a problem in my head, pretend it is real even though i have no real evidence for it at all other than my imagination then complain about it. Ill leave that to you. And if you let your creepy obsession with Nigel Wood drop for a little while you would see there is something else in that image.

Nearly 10K for a home game against Wigan... wow.


The Bulls home attendance for the Wigan game was over 23% down on last year. Given that the Bulls home attendances this season have been down by over 33% (v Salford)... down by over 23% (v Hull KR)... down by over 27% (v Saints)... and down by over 29% (v Castleford)... then may I ask if it was sing it down in a howling gale at all those other Bulls home games too?

Or are you just talking bollox as per usual?

Good call.

So here's the data.

SL home attendances for games against London are 12.71% down on the same fixtures last year. SL home attendances for games against Catalan are 8.49% down on last year.

[uLondon away game attendances in 2013 compared to same fixtures last year[/u
v Hudds... 5273... 6019
v Wigan... 11590...12608
v Salford... 2333... 5250
v Castleford... 4751... 5149
v Warrington... 9681... 11118
v Leeds... 12855... 13109
----------------------------------------------
TOTAL... 46483... 53253... -12.71%
----------------------------------------------


[uCatalan away game attendances in 2013 compared to same fixtures last year[/u
v Hull KR... 7864... 7142
v Warrington... 10015... 10570
v Castleford... 5205... 5005
v Wigan... 12149... 14464
v London... 1136... 1829
v Hull... 10065... 10765
v Saints... 11111... 13108
--------------------------------------------
TOTAL... 57545... 62883... -8.49%
--------------------------------------------

IF you could pull yourself away from your excel spreadsheets and look out of the window once in a while, maybe take a trip outside, you would have realised that yes, the weather over the past 3 months has been particularly bad.

Don't suppose you could show stats back to 2009 like Him did?
Just that his stats showed support for the Leeds-London game going up-down-up-down.

Sorry about this, it might sound a bit blunt, I really don't know how to word it... well, the thing is..

get a life.

I agree. His provision of attendance stats for Leeds home games ONLY were inadequate.

Here you go and feel free to draw your own conclusions on SL attendances going back further than comparisons to last year. I appreciate that SmokeyTA is very uncomfortable with 2013 attendance comparisons with last year as he's regularly demonstrated on this thread for the best part of the last three months



[uLondon away game attendances in 2013 compared to same fixtures last year[/u
[uFixture..... 2013... 2012... 2011... 2010... 2009[/u
v Hudds... 5273... 6019... 5220... 5336... 6356
v Wigan... 11590...12608... 12813... 18605... 14977
v Salford... 2333... 5250... 3065... 2672... 3367
v Castleford... 4751... 5149... 7072... 5862... 7049
v Warrington... 9681... 11118... 11506... 11678... 10387
v Leeds... 12855... 13109... 14350... 12684... 13912
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL... 46483... 53253... 54026... 56837... 56048
% change.......... -12.71... -13.96... -18.22... -17.07
-----------------------------------------------------------------


[uCatalan away game attendances in 2013 compared to same fixtures last year[/u
[uFixture..... 2013... 2012... 2011... 2010... 2009[/u
v Hull KR... 7864... 7142... 8092... 7102... 8115
v Warrington... 10015... 10570... 10956... 9619... 7947
v Castleford... 5205... 5005... 4889... 4209... 5508
v Wigan... 12149... 14464... 13134... 12001... 11543
v London... 1136... 1829... 2069... 2330... 2539
v Hull... 10065... 10765... 10739... 11466... 12482
v Saints... 11111... 13108... 7076... 8442... 8268
----------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL... 57545... 62883... 56955... 55169... 56402
% change............ -8.49... +1.03.... +4.31.... +2.03
----------------------------------------------------------------

Nevertheless, the fact remains that SL home attendances against London & Catalan (who both bring next to no fans to their away games) has shown a significant percentage decrease which mirrors percentage decline in SL attendances overall in 2013 compared to the same fixtures last year.

Feel free to disengage from this thread completely if the stats being provided are continuing to make you feel very uncomfortable.

Let's hope you're right and I'm wrong....but unlike you, who is prepared to swallow anything and everything released and who will applaud the TV deal, the lack of any major sponsor and the silence after the initial bluster from the RLWC press department, I choose to look at all the facts available.

60% of 40k sales for the final is 24,000 first timers....seriously....24,000 people who've never attended an International RL game, CC Final or Grand Final before have suddenly decided to purchase tickets to the RLWC Final over 8 months ahead of the event?
Smokey TA......do you believe in the tooth fairy as well?

He is the tooth fairy

I think comparing our attendances to last years is pointless. We sold 10k season tickets last year, so each attendance started at that, with paying spectators added on top.

Last year we supposedly got 10k for the London game, even though the stand behind the sticks was empty. Against Wigan the stand behind the sticks had at least 2k wigan fans, yet the London game last year was announced as more.

It's not really possible to tell whether they are actual more people in the stadium this year than last

Either way the Bulls will be making more money this year

At least all those unsold rows of empty seats at the RLWC won't be quite so visible as they'll be broadcast in standard definition on Premier Sports.


The bluster on RLWC ticket sales this year has replaced the bluster on SL attendances last year.


Exactly. If they are going to tell a few exaggerated porkies with regard to RLWC ticket sales, at least make them appear credible as opposed to incredible.


Despite being the recipient of close to bugger all money under his pillow in exchange for his last few baby teeth during the pre-Super Teeth era, it's worth noting that immediately after was characterised by a period of steady growth and that's the positive he intends to focus on instead.

The RFL were more than happy to broadcast attendance comparisons in previous seasons, even though they knew some of those higher attendances were hiked up via the sale of ridiculously discounted season tickets at Bradford and elsewhere.


Good, if that's the case. It's a step in the right direction. Flogging the game cheap to fans and sponsors (in Stobart's case, for free!) has led to everyone viewing the game as cheap.

The biggest problem faced by the RLWC 2013 organisers now is scheduling the games that are live on the BBC and deciding if they go head to head with SKY TV.......SKY have a massive casual sports fan audience, they will not mention the RLWC from the day after the Grand Final.....and the BBC's record of promoting RL is, shall we say, not brilliant!

November 2nd and chances are England v Australia at Twickenham will be a 3pm KO.....do the RLWC gamble with an evening KO? Same problem the weekend after.....Argentina at Twickenham probably 3pm again.....do they schdule an evening KO for the Fiji game?
Saturday the 16th is the probable QF tie for England......whilst down in Twickenham, the All Blacks are in town.....again, what time do theY schedule KO for.

It is [uNOW VITAL[/u that the games at Hull, Huddersfield and Wigan are sold out.........because as sure as day follows night, when it comes to news programmes watched by millions, highlights from a packed Twickenham followed by banks of empty seats from a RLWC QF featuring Englandis not an image the RFL want seen across the country.

There aren’t any further facts. Thats why im not worried about them. Its not about swallowing everything I am told, its about not inventing problems in my head and worrying about them. The tickets may be sale or return. They may have all been sold to one really rich guy who likes his space. They may be made of crackers and 40k have been eaten by parrots and this is all a big ruse to hide that fact. But as there is no supporting evidence for any of these possibilities, there is no point worrying about them.

or someone who had been to those games before used a different account to buy them. Or a different person in the group bought them, or people who usually buy direct from their club bought them, or people who usually go to a ticket office on the day bought them on-line for the first time, or people who wanted to take advantage of the offers bought them earlier than they usually would, through a different source to what they usually would. I dont think an account under my name has bought tickets for a CC final, GF, MM weekend, or International RL game before, a mate usually gets them for me. I know i have booked tickets for the WC.

Yeah its a bit of spin but for f'cks sake, thats what they are paid to do. People complain constantly, incessently, about the way the game is presented in the media, they get a good news story out and people complain they are lying or its just 'spin', or bluster. They literally can't win.

Whats even more astounding is the people who think they are doing us a favour by pointing this out, like their laser like insight is pointing out that this is the case for the first time ever. They are the RFL, it is their job to present the game in the best light it can. They are paid to do it. It is good for the game for them to do it. It benefits everyone. God knows why they have to battle against a weirdly obsessed small minority of fans whose obsession is to try and do the exact opposite.

Rugby League, with friends like these...........

Sold *by* travel companies is fine. "Sold" *to* a travel company isn't the same thing, until the ticket is bought by a fan. It may be. I don't know. It would be good to know. If the 'sales' are in the hands of fans already, excellent news. If a significant number of the 'sales' are just distributions to travel companies, that's not as good. That's why I'm neither criticizing nor applauding the ticket sales to date.

I'm not complaining about the RFL 'spinning' ticket sales - they should do exactly that. Most people on here however are close enough and care enough about the game to be interested in the stuff behind the spin, and that's what's under discussion. I thought this was a discussion board about the sport, not a cheerleading section for the RFL's ( perfectly justified I might add) spin.

Willful ignorance would be fine if your position was neutral. It is not. You tell us that the sale of tickets is Good News, despite admitting that for all you know they may be on a sale or return basis. You can't have it both ways.