Agree with this team for the Exiles game although I would give the left centre berth to Welham (he is in the senior squad after all)

For the 4 Nations, I would add Widdop at 6 and Burgess & Ellis to the second row and move Tomkins and Westwood to the bench and probably add Crabtree for extra size (would have no complaints with Harrison though as he is a quality forward)

Can’t make my mind up between Bridge and Shenton and they will both do a job (I expect Watkins to be in contention at the end of the year too)

Finally, I think the interchange hooker spot will go to Robinson – I like Lunt but I think Robinson adds more options with his ability to cover the halves

4 Nations Team

S Tomkins
McGilvray
Bridge/Shenton
Welham
Briscoe
Widdop
Brough
Graham
Roby
Morley
Burgess
Ellis
O'Loughlin

Robinson
Peacock
J Tomkins
Westwood

For once, I agree with you "Saddened!". I don't think that Tomkins' defence is good enough to be at full back. In attack he is a great player to bring in on the pivot, but his defence isn't up to scratch. His poor tackling has been shown in the WCC, which shows us that he won't be able to defend against the Aussies. And in the SL, in many games his poor technique has led him to be putting in sly little foul play (tackling with the knees first etc.). I think he's a great player in the half back role and that's where we should play him IMO.

Well no, he has done more to show he has a better kicking game than Long. The rest of his game wasnt up to Long's standard, and I think we would agree overall, Long was the better player.

Why this would change at international level i dont know.

If there was a young loose forward, regularly playing SL with the potential to be as good as Sinfield then stick him in. Im not sure who he is but stick him in.

Similarly, who is this young prop with the potential to be as good as Morley but isnt getting a chance?

Anyone have any idea on ticket sales for this game?

But if the likes of Sinfield, O'Loughlin, Morley, and Westwood continue to be among the best players in their positions surley they should still be selected?

Its alright saying give the youngters a chance, but does anybody really believe the likes of Welham, Cudjoe, Watts, Foster, Lee Smith, Joel Tomkins will ever be good enough to beat the Aussies?? A couple of them have been given a chance and have failed, and the likes of Sam T, and Tom Briscoe .

I hope the likes of Lawrence, Charnley, Watkins, Broughton, and Mossop all get the chance to test themselves at test level, but they have to prove themselves over the SL (or NRL) season first.

Picking on form - team picks itself IMO

1. Widdop
2. Briscoe
3. Yeaman
4. Joel Tomkins
5. Cudjoe / Hall
6. Brough
7. Tomkins
8. Graham
9. Sinfield
10. Peacock
11. Harrison / Westwood
12. L. Farrell
13. O'Loughlin
-------------------
14. Morley
15. Robinson
16. Mossop
17. Whitehead

While I agree that good defence is a nice addition to a full back’s armoury, in the modern game attack is a far more important consideration – this is one position where we have been well behind the Aussies in recent times and Tomkins can become a very good full back if he plays there internationally for a season or two

How can a 'form' team have Widdop at 1 and Tomkins at 7 when neither has played in those positions all season?

Actually no - I think that overall Brough is better than Long and now he is in a top 4 team (and he has sorted his attitude out somewhat) he is proving it

In the same way it can have Sinfield at 9 and no Roby.

He is certainly better than Long is now, but Long at his peak? I dont even think its close.
Long led his team to everything, had some massive performances in some massive games. 3 Lance Todd trophies, he won a GF with the last kick of the game. I struggle to see what Brough has done to deserve such an accolade. He has yet to play a complete season in a top 4 side. He is 28 years old.

This is what i'd go with basing the selection on the elite training squad, which i thought was the point??

1.Sam Tomkins
2.Leroy Cudjoe
3.Michael Shenton
4.Chris Bridge
5.Tom Briscoe

6.Danny McGuire
7.Danny Brough

8.Adrian Morley
9.James Roby
10.Jamie Peacock

11.Ben Westwood
12.Jon Wilkin
13.Sean O'Loughlin

14.Luke Robinson
15.Joel Tomkins
16.Eorl Crabtree
17.James Graham

It's a fair question – as always with these types of debates, you have to consider the teams Long played in, the Saints team that won those Grand Finals was class with players of likes of Sculthorpe and Cunningham etc to compliment Long (in much the same way as I cannot work out if Sean Edwards was a great player or a good player who happened to play in team of greats)

Anyway, back to the point – comparing Long in his prime to Brough now. I think that Brough has the better kicking game (long and short) while Long was more dangerous with the ball in his hands. Brough is solid in defence whereas I felt Long was a little weaker especially earlier in his career

I guess the question is, would Brough look out of place in that great Saints team and I don’t think he would – in fact I think he would have the ability to star in it. Brough has a lot to prove over the next two or three years both with the Giants and England (whatever you think of his transition from Scotland which we won’t go into) but I think he can be a player for England to build their team around – he certainly has that world class kicking game we have been badly lacking for years

Farrell or Harrison could easily be as good as sinfield.

I doubt mossop will play in the exiles game ahead of morley, maybe mcarthy scarsbrook could play there or maybe one of the younger burgess'?

Robinson or Lunt starting on the bench?

at doing what?.....can't ever see farrell or harrison dropping in at 6...or 9...aswell as being able to play 13..


thats why sinfield has to get the utility spot on the bench

I watch them both every week and Robinson would be the one i would pick to come off the bench. As good as Lunt is ( and he will get a lot better) Robinson offers something different particularly in attack against tired forwards.

Remember that Robinson was the stand out English player in the 4 nations last year.

Lunt plays very similarly to Roby and would do a great job but Robinson offers something different at the minute.

my 17

1. s.tomkins
2. hall
3. j.tomkins
4. shenton
5. briscoe
6. brown
7. brough
8. peacock
9. roby
10 graham
11. larne patrick
12. ben harrison
13. o'loughlin

14. sinfield
15. crabtree
16. morley
17. westwood

Quote ="Lazlo Panaflex"Well, apart from the fact he's made yes yards, less carries, less offload, less tackle busts and averages less meteres per carry than Morley he's almost as good in attack, yes.'" And let's compare that to Lynch: www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011 Yep, I stand by judgement.

Quote ="Lazlo Panaflex"Well, apart from the fact he's made yes yards, less carries, less offload, less tackle busts and averages less meteres per carry than Morley he's almost as good in attack, yes.'" And let's compare that to Lynch: www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011 Yep, I stand by judgement.

Based on who is in the squad:

1. Sam Tomkins
2. Tom Briscoe
3. Leroy Cudjoe
4. Chris Bridge
5. Ryan Hall
6. Kevin Sinfield
7. Danny Brough
8. Adrian Morley
9. James Roby
10. James Graham
11. Ben Westwood
12. Ben Harrison
13. Sean O'loughlin

-------------------------------------

14. Luke Robinson
15. Jamie Peacock
16. Eorl Crabtree
17. Joel Tomkins

Andy Lynch and Kirk Yeamen aren't in the squad announced. Otherwise they would be both be included for me.

His defence from fullback is fine in alot of areas but his main problem is his lack of weight when defending the tryline. It's the only part of his defence that lets him down a touch as players can sometimes just power over him. His tackling in terms of one on ones when people break the line is very good as it was when he defended in the line from 6.

His positives in the fullback position far outweigh the negatives though.

Quote ="Fully"And let's compare that to Lynch: www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011 Yep, I stand by judgement.'" Irrelevant. Andy Lynch isn't in the squad and neither is Kevin Brown (who you both have in your team).

Quote ="Fully"And let's compare that to Lynch: www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2011 Yep, I stand by judgement.'" Irrelevant. Andy Lynch isn't in the squad and neither is Kevin Brown (who you both have in your team).

They don't have to be in the team.

You DO realise they can be added from outside the train on squad?

So because they aren't in the squad announced at the start of the season, that's it then? That's some motivation there for you!