The extension of your argument then is, If this per capita calculation is correct, then it assumes that not only is nobody outside Castleford attending, nobody will. And whilst the per capita figure is relatively high, it is only that way because Castleford are operating in a much much smaller market, and as such have much much less potential growth, and it leaves them in a position where if they were to look to compete with the big boys, they would need between 1 in 2 and 1 in 3 people, in Castleford attending every single week. Which is clearly an unrealistic target. You are then left with the unavoidable conclusion that Castleford cant, and wont ever be able to compete, and that this level is probably their peak as their market is pretty much at saturation.

However Castleford fans will tell you that they don’t only attract fans from Cas, that there are areas outside of Cas which they can and do target and their potential isn’t limited because of Cas’ relatively small size because Cas’ market isn’t only the relatively small town of Cas. Which would make your per capita figure nonsense.

Is that similar to comparing one sport with another......Lets say Football with Rugby League.

I've read enough drivel from you on nearly every thread you have contributed to. Can someone please point me in the direction of the Blocking Facility on here.......Sweet Jesus!!!!

I am getting all confused now.....
SL is growing attendances and getting more money from Sky, below SL is dieing and is forced to play its best games on a Thursday on a channel few watch for no TV income. The RFL has managed to get in on the government Freebies to paper over the cracks, the freebies are being reduced and the RFL's payment to the clubs is already down 10% to £90k when the SKY deal is increasing. The RFL's income in comparison to the RFU is pitiful. We can compare RL to Soccer for losses but not for structures, eg P&R, we cant compare Soccers ability to attract stupidly rich benefactors who are willing to put in hundreds of millions to fund their hobby. Sky viewers are on the up as they are for the other major sports, is that due to increasing numbers of subscribers?, The Championships are removed from Sky and Championship RU is introduced, despite some decent viewing figures especially for GF and NRC final which hit PRU levels. RFL cant get a sponsor for its flagship, yet nobody else has that problem. RFL stops its non SL clubs being ambitious by removing P&R yet Soccer and RU, even Cricket, can see the benefits of it and have no issues attracting sponsors with RU accelerating crowd growth at club level far greater than RL. Alex's Dad provides worrying facts that he is willing to show that half of the SL clubs are in a similar position. Then we see below SL is to become a feeder comp to support the removal of academies

All in all I believe the running of RL in comparison with its primary competitors over the same period is poor and lacked honesty and values in its dealings with non SL clubs. I believe we can and should be doing much better, but that the incumbants are incapable of making the sport the best it can be.

You have been from the start.

Mo, that's how he gets the discussions to stop, baffle with bullthing.

Now we are almost in agreement. The only way that Castleford can grow significantly as a club, is to attract large numbers of supporters from outside their local area.
This could of course include more substantial numbers of away supporters, they dont all have to be Cas supporters, only people who are willing to pay to watch RL at the Jungle.
However, this doesnt change the status of the club within Castleford itself and as I suggested earlier, because a higher proportion of the towns folk turn up to watch their team, this does make the club more important to the town of Castleford, which going back to the title of the thread, it would be a major loss to the town, should there be any terminal problems with the club.
I very much hope that Steve Ferres was using scare tactics to encourage the faithfull to buy their S/T's and not warning everyone of any more significant problems.
Although the ground may not suit some, in this modern era of RL, it's a great place to watch a game !

I know that, you know that and I even think he knows it too.

I pray as the cold draws in and the knackers contract that even he can see things for what they are, maybe we should refer to him as Canute.

It does completely disprove the use of the per capita statistic. Castleford fans would already argue that they attract people from outside the town of Castleford, meaning that per capita statistic you are using is wrong because the market Castleford have isn’t simply Castleford, but other places around it. They will tell you, not everyone who supports Cas, is from Cas, just like not everyone who supports Leeds is from Leeds, not everyone who supports Wakefield is from Wakefield. That being the case a per capita statistic doesn’t work because you are including people from outside Castleford and your statistic isn’t proof a higher proportion of people from Cas attend Cas games (though this would be flawed when compared to other places anywhere) but it is a statistic which shows that compared to the population of the town of Cas, Cas Tigers have a higher attendance. It would be a loss to any town to lose there club.

Though sadly not to enough people, as is being proved. That’s why Cas need a new stadium, not because people like shiny things, not because of any snobbish attitude to ‘traditional grounds’ not for any other reason than fewer people will attend grounds like Wheldon Road because of the facilities and more people will attend a better stadium, ergo, Cas need a new stadium so that more people will attend, they can get more money and their position will be less precarious.

Though they will then have to put up with the flatcap vested interests telling us Cas haven’t really improved attendances they have just got a new stadium and the extra people going are just a mirage.

In Castlefords case, where you appear to agree that a large percentage of the "locals" are already attending games, a shiny new stadium may not acheive the "bounce" in numbers that some of the other new grounds have managed.
Btw, do you think Mr Ferres is using "scare tactics" or, do you think that they may have more significant problems ?

I think they do have problems, I think they always had problems. They are small town club, with a small market. Whilst they can and do attract people from outside Cas, so do other clubs, and they are competing with them for it. They are competing with Wakefield for a lot of fans, they are competing for a generation of people who grew up in a city called Wakefield, for whom the 5 independent towns mentality is a relic of the past. If Wakefield continue their current upward curve, that is only going to make Castleford a progressively more difficult sell. There is no real reason why a kid from say Normanton, or Knottingley are going to choose to go to Wheldon road to watch a struggling Cas, when they can pretty easily get to a brand spanking new facility in Stanley and watch a successful Wakefield.

Similarly why are kids from towns in Leeds like Methley or Garforth going to have an affiliation with Cas and not the City they are from (Leeds) or Wakefield?

Ferres is right, Cas are in a precarious position, and there isn’t a quick fix, and there isn’t a silver bullet for their problems. They have some difficult choices to make, do they try and continue as an SL club, if so, how realistic are those plans? Do they run the risk of failing and going kaput? Do they soldier on? Do they have a plan to go from where they are now, which they clearly aren’t happy with, to where they want to be? Would moving down a league be the best thing for them? Is the time right for a serious discussion about the M word?

These are the difficult questions Cas and their fans need to answer honestly, So yes, I do think they have real problems but I don’t think they are necessarily immediate or specific.

Agreed.
They do have to find ways to attract new supporters and with Doncaster having some success lower down the food chain, this could further erode their potential to attract new fans from this area.
For now, without a new stadium on the close horizon, they will have to cut their cloth to suit what is realistic and this may be the rationale behind Mr Ferres' comments.
To drop down a division would likely mean an end to SL for a very long time indeed so, I dont think that avenue will be taken (unless the RFL have a cull in SL numbers)
Lets hope they get themselves sorted and that their supporters keep the faith.

I have always really liked classy cas, even after '96! It is a shame in a weird sort of way that the game is growing to the point where the income needed to be sustainable in the top flight means that small town clubs can not stay at the top. I guess it is the price of progress?

It would be if there were other options to replace them , but there aren't , and there wont be for a very long time , if ever

Thanks Mystic Meg.

But we all know that's the failing of this ludicrous system we have in place. This is not Australia, and the sooner we understand that then we can develop our game within our culture and restrictions.

Cas, HKR, Widnes, Wakefield and Salford are on a par with Fev, Fax and Leigh but the latter group can never quickly replace the former due to the current structures of the game and the distribution of funds.

The gap is great and getting greater, and we have no policies to close it.

A very basic check would have told you that Fev's current ground wouldnt hold Wakefield or HKR's average attendance. They arent on a par at all.

The gap is growing and will continue to grow because some clubs, arent able to operate the level of others. Why some people cant accept that fact no-one knows.

Its funny but I had a look to see what Featherstone's biggest attendance was, expecting it to back you up.
They got 17k in 1959 against St Helens. How on earth did they get that many in Post Office Road.

I hope they do well because they are working hard at it.
I do fear though that time has eroded the Featherstone village enough that they will never get big crowds coming, even if they sign the Aussie test team.
Saying that, they would get more if either Wakefield or Cas failed, and would probably get more than London right now.

I would advise that when you stand up, make sure you get all that sand out of your ears.

I would advise you, that when you stand up make sure you haven’t tied your shoes together and a responsible adult is nearby so you dont hurt yourself.

By using stadia in ridiculously dangerous ways. It always amazes me when you see pictures of thousands packed in to stands which clearly aren’t fit for it. God knows how sports clubs were able to get away with it

I wear slip on's for that reason, how do you get the sand out?

Well a lot of them lived in small communities with no saftey barriers on roads, no seat belts in cars and worked down the pit so this probably wasn't seen as particularly dangerous.
Lets face it, before the Bradford fire and Hillsborough disaster, we all stood in tight crowds that by todays standards were not safe.

I can remember going to Wigan and having to squeeze through a big gateway to get out. With 20k+ behind you that was a bit hairy. And they hada little bridge acroos the beck.
I went to watch Wigan and Warrington at Sts for Lancashire Cup Final and can remember crowd surges where I was completely seperated from my dad and could hardly get my arms up tos top the crush. Great atmosphere I have to say but i'm a big lad (teenager then) and people smaller than me were a bit frightened.

So I loved the old days, but happy with the nice shiney stadiums we are building in Rugby league now.

So the answer to the problem is ?

So having less competitive clubs is progress ?

The problem is one you have invented to fit your narrative.