nope....i posted a map of top flight clubs. The press pays little heed to any 2nd tier team sports, including soccer.......you want to include these PART TIME CLUBS purely to make you feel less insecure as to exactly how regional rl is in its reach.

Well be accurate in your critiscm then, you mentioned professional clubs, now your talk about top flight, make your mind up lol. There are professional RL clubs spread across england.

As I said.....top flight. There are plenty of professional union clubs that I left off the map too.....its about media and public perception and 2nd tier = nowhere on anything other than maybe soccer. The map is accurate and shows exactly why union gets more exposure....its hard foe some to accept, but it is factual as opposed to imaginary conspiracy theory

Have you seen to awful crowds that "Llanelli" Scarlets, the "Newport" Dragons and even the Cardiff Blues get.

I did see an article a few years ago (2011 I think), and I guess that it's pretty much the same now, that most SL matches had more viewers on Sky than the quarter-finals of the European (rugby union) Cup, when Saracens played the Ospreys at Watford in front of 11,000 spectators and about 150,000 TV viewers, there were even less watching on TV the following day for Leinster v Cardiff. But it was a good crowd at Dublin, but the coverage didn't really reflect the amount of people watching, inasmuch that it should have been less if comparing the amount of people watching Rugby League. However, I can see some smug face leaning back in his chair saying, "ah, but how many in the ABC1 demographic were watching the Rugby League?"

Super League clubs average attendance figure will rise this year due to London not dragging the figures.

Aviva clubs average attendance are hugely inflated due to them giving 4 clubs a 60,000 plus attendance figure from the twickenham game. If league gave every club a 30k attendance from the magic weekend the average would increase quite a bit.

In 5 years time the regions will still be around, the Welsh rugby team will still get massive crowds in the 6 nations, and you'll still be banging on about your dossier from 2011. If only Welsh rugby modelled themselves on the Crusaders

Yes but you leave them off because it suits your argument, put them on and Rugby Leagues geographical spread is National which would p!5s on your fireworks wouldn't it!

Your argument is ridiculous and your reasoning devicive.

Nice and convenient again, you ignore the fact that when on SKY the Rugby Union viewing figures were less than half that of Superleague!

What's that they say about statistics

"[iThere's lies, damn lies and statistics"[/i

Now I know there's a place for statistical argument but basing your whole reasoning on carefully and deviciveley selected stats which omit any figures that could be detrimental to your agenda is just lying.

galiant/gutterfax and now on another site calling yourself GrimRob Desperately trying to find out where you can find the Championship and Championship 1 average attendances, transparent and pathetic! www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php ... tendances/ [size=50Next comes the denial, wait for it . . .[/size

galiant/gutterfax and now on another site calling yourself GrimRob Desperately trying to find out where you can find the Championship and Championship 1 average attendances, transparent and pathetic! www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php ... tendances/ [size=50Next comes the denial, wait for it . . .[/size

Nope.....2nd tier = nowhere in the press for any sport......you trying to include it is just desperation

Quote ="The Avenger"galiant/gutterfax and now on another site calling yourself GrimRob Desperately trying to find out where you can find the Championship and Championship 1 average attendances, transparent and pathetic! www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php ... tendances/ [size=50Next comes the denial, wait for it . . .[/size'" Not I! Like the British press and their readers, i generally don't give a flying one about 2nd tier attendances. That will change this year though given my side are now there. If I post anywhere it is as gutterfax and that includes twitter....... Total rl saw fit to ask me to.leave their site......apparently asking the owner why he was so touchy about rugby union being a giant internationally compared to league in a thread about international union was just too much for his narrow mind to comprehend. Needless to say, I don't post there any more. I think my style of posting didn't fit in with his demographic readership........who to.a man all dream of dominance over union but have not the slightest clue or grasp.of reality. If you don't believe me, search for my posts there......come to an abrupt end about 2 months ago

Quote ="The Avenger"galiant/gutterfax and now on another site calling yourself GrimRob Desperately trying to find out where you can find the Championship and Championship 1 average attendances, transparent and pathetic! www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php ... tendances/ [size=50Next comes the denial, wait for it . . .[/size'" Not I! Like the British press and their readers, i generally don't give a flying one about 2nd tier attendances. That will change this year though given my side are now there. If I post anywhere it is as gutterfax and that includes twitter....... Total rl saw fit to ask me to.leave their site......apparently asking the owner why he was so touchy about rugby union being a giant internationally compared to league in a thread about international union was just too much for his narrow mind to comprehend. Needless to say, I don't post there any more. I think my style of posting didn't fit in with his demographic readership........who to.a man all dream of dominance over union but have not the slightest clue or grasp.of reality. If you don't believe me, search for my posts there......come to an abrupt end about 2 months ago

i don't know why you keep including me sc-avenger, i don't take you seriously enough to argue with you.

Very true about the use of stats.....the bbc claim a 4.5 million average for the 6 nations......itv claim 15,000,000 for the rwc final in 2003. Neither stat is accepted on here because it underlines how much.more popular union is. A few years back 2 Irish teams contested the h cup final in London.....it drew a bigger crowd and a bigger sky tv audience than the grand final......those bloody stats just keep coming

There's nothing to laugh at there. Are you telling me that viewing figures have gone up a lot for rugby union European Cup matches since 2011? As less ppl subscribe to BT Sport I guess they've actually gone down. Yet rugby league viewership has stayed about the same, and about 250,000 watched Wigan v Huddersfield last February on SKY.

Welsh "national" team attendances have fallen since 2008, due to the GFC (Global Financial Crisis) in the main granted.

And what anything of this has to do with the Crusaders is beyond me. You can't have a pro club being reliant on one guy, his as we know being Leighton Samuel. You need a lot of the community involved. Look how Leeds/Yorkshire Carnegie are going.

Anyway, back to my main point, it seems from the info I've seen over the years, that more people watch club rugby league on TV than club rugby union, and thousands more it seems. I suppose you could say that soccer fans prefer to watch RL over RU.

Don't they just!

You just did!

Any joy with a map showing Leicester and Northampton on the M4 corridor?

Theyre not far removed from it as you know and they spend almost 50% of their time there playing away games.
Still southern based!

How about that map showing all the pro clubs, are we seeing that anytime soon?

no, that was informing you about something. bit different from arguing dear boy.

Coventry, Leicester and Northampton are in the midlands.......salford the north west and Newcastle the north east. 5 of 12 most assuredly not Southern teams.ill whip up a 2nd tier map for you next time I'm at my pc....and remember, you asked for it.

Incorrect.

Sky viewing figures for SL have been on the slide for several seasons mirroring the slump in SL attendances.

[uSKY VIEWING FIGURES...[/u - *source barb.co.uk (Weekly Top 10s)

[uRegular Season[/u
2008: 7,552k/48 = 157k average
2009: 8,555k/56 = 153k average
2010: 9,590k/60 = 160k average
2011: 9,138k/56 = 163k average
2012: 10,975k/65= 169k average
2013: 9,698k/63 = 154k average
=#FF00002014: 6,754k/50 = 135k average (including Catalan home games)
2014 Catalan home games = 658k/8 = 82k average
=#FF00002014: 6,096k/42 = 145k average (excluding Catalan home games)

[uPlay-Offs[/u
2008: --676k/3 = 225k average
2009: 1,242k/6 = 207k average
2010: 1,590k/8 = 199k average
2011: 1,583k/8 = 198k average
2012: 1,285k/7 = 184k average
2013: 1,234k/7 = 176k average
=#FF00002014: 1,115/8 = 139k average

[uGrand Final[/u
2008: 325k
2009: 365k
2010: 299k
2011: 319k
2012: 324k
2013: 276k
=#FF00002014: 315k

[uWorld Club Challenge[/u:
2008: 332k
2009: 367k
2010: 307k
2011: 206k
2012: 264k
2013: 303k
=#FF00002014: 159K (Saturday morning)

Can always rely on billy. Hey....Purdie. There's them damned stats again....

www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2 ... e-union-tv

www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2 ... e-union-tv

www.superleague.co.uk/article/29 ... st-utility

www.superleague.co.uk/article/29 ... st-utility

We'll be carefull, you just might blow your hypothesis that Rugby League - The Greatest Game isn't Nationaly spread!