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| Quote ="Inflatable_Armadillo"You say that you are not familiar with the Headingley pitch issues because you are in southern France, fine no problems with that... so why comment in the first place and not only that, offer your undoubted expert opinion on why the pitch has problems without knowing the full facts?
Do you know what the underlying longer term issue with the Headingley pitch is and why only a full deep re-laying of the pitch will solve the problems?
I think accusing Leeds of underinvestment and lack of professional care of the playing surface could not be further from the truth!'"
with great respect,it doesn't matter which playing surface it is - as you intimate it's difficult to know what's happening underneath the surface at Headingley without knowing the basics hence me saying that soil analysis would be a help to give some kind of instant diagnosis
It's a bit like a human,youdont need to open up a body to tell there are problems,a doctor can tell lots from the persons appearance as well as,and especially blood tests.It's the same thing for turfgrass whether it be a golf green or fairway etc which is my specialty or rl or footy pitch etc.
Looking at the pitch on the tv tells me immediately there is a problem - the problem might be simply rectified ie if it's a clay based soil,add lime etc etc then carry out regular aeration etc.
Is there already a drainage system in place ? if not then it doesn't have to cost a fortune to install one - if,as you say the turf hasn't been replaced for 80 years then maybe there isn't an existing drainage system if there is already a system then it may just need re-opening with the drill system if it's clogged or a complete new system is required.
Re-laying turf shouldn't be necesary if the basics are already in place - a newly laid turf at Headingley will soon become in bad condition again if the drainage/aeration problems aren't sorted.Look at Wembley,Old Trafford etc who sem to re-lay every couple of years.This would/should not be necessary with a proper drainage system in place.
It's not rocket science - just turf science ...
The man to ask is your head groundsman - he'll tell you what's required. |
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Oh dear. What a shame that Starbug has to make himself look silly. Look back through the thread, Leeds fans have happily accepted criticism of the stadium, they have also put forward the benefits of it. By all means hold the game at Doncaster if you want a crowd of about 6,000. If you want a bigger crowd hold it in a stronger RL area that can also attract more corporate attendances by using the links of a big club.
The options for this game were few really.
Halliwell Jones - great stadium, might be a bit small, a long way for Yorkshire fans to go.
Widnes - certainly a possibility, would have helped boost Widnes' club for next season.
DW - a natural choice for any RL game, is a pain to get through Wigan on a Friday night
Huddersfield - decent stadium, looks good on tv, but doesn't draw on a large RL presence in the town like DW or Headingley or KC.
KC - decent stadium, big RL presence would be a good choice, but is a long way for Lancashire fans.
Headingley - adequate capacity, draws on big RL support, utilises significant corporate ties associated with Headingley, smaller crowds don't look as bad as at all seated stadiums, but isnt up to date.
In my opinion if you want a decent crowd and want it fairly central to try and encourage other clubs fans to go and you want significant corporate attendance then it's a straight choice between Headingley & Wigan. Headingley doesn't have to worry about a Premiership teams fixtures and is more natural if McClennan is coach of the exiles. Wigan looks better and has plenty of parking.
So the fact that Headingley has been chosen is hardly the most disgraceful choice of the century. Of course we could hold it at Leigh and really show the world how strong rugby league is.
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| Quote ="Him"Oh dear. What a shame that Starbug has to make himself look silly. Look back through the thread, Leeds fans have happily accepted criticism of the stadium, they have also put forward the benefits of it. By all means hold the game at Doncaster if you want a crowd of about 6,000. If you want a bigger crowd hold it in a stronger RL area that can also attract more corporate attendances by using the links of a big club.
The options for this game were few really.
Halliwell Jones - great stadium, might be a bit small, a long way for Yorkshire fans to go.
Widnes - certainly a possibility, would have helped boost Widnes' club for next season.
DW - a natural choice for any RL game, is a pain to get through Wigan on a Friday night
Huddersfield - decent stadium, looks good on tv, but doesn't draw on a large RL presence in the town like DW or Headingley or KC.
KC - decent stadium, big RL presence would be a good choice, but is a long way for Lancashire fans.
Headingley - adequate capacity, draws on big RL support, utilises significant corporate ties associated with Headingley, smaller crowds don't look as bad as at all seated stadiums, but isnt up to date.
In my opinion if you want a decent crowd and want it fairly central to try and encourage other clubs fans to go and you want significant corporate attendance then it's a straight choice between Headingley & Wigan. Headingley doesn't have to worry about a Premiership teams fixtures and is more natural if McClennan is coach of the exiles. Wigan looks better and has plenty of parking.
So the fact that Headingley has been chosen is hardly the most disgraceful choice of the century. Of course we could hold it at Leigh and really show the world how strong rugby league is.'"
Ooooooooooooo , bitchy , bitchy  |
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| Quote ="Father Ted"Headingly is not an International Stadium.
If they wanted a 17k capacity the Doncaster should have been the choice.
Good for motorway access,
Designated parking,
Fully Covered Ground.
Uninterupted views of the pitch,
Good corporate facilities,
Good facilities for normal priced seating.
Doncaster win every time over Headingly, the place is an absolute dump with the worst game day experience in Super League for travelling fans.'"
I agree completely. I cant stand Headingly on a friday night |
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| Quote ="Beastwood"Yep the SouthStand needs work, and will be rebuilt at the end of the season.
But with the location it has, a good capacity, great new big screen and fantastic corporate facilities in the carnegie stand it's an obvious choice for the Exiles game.
And Hull KR fan complaining about a ground not being up to scratch ...
 .. the irony.'"
can you tell me if there is any h/s problems on our ground i dont think they is at least were doing something about it what are you doing the away stand is disgraceful and people call our ground |
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| Quote ="hullkrforever"can you tell me if there is any h/s problems on our ground i dont think they is at least were doing something about it what are you doing the away stand is disgraceful and people call our ground'"
There aren't any health & safety problems at Headingley, if there were the ground would not be allowed to be used and wouldn't receive a Health & Safety certificate. It has a Health & Safety certificate for each stand for a certain capacity.
In what way is the Western Terrace disgraceful compared to the away end at Hull KR? |
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| Quote ="sanjunien"with great respect,it doesn't matter which playing surface it is - as you intimate it's difficult to know what's happening underneath the surface at Headingley without knowing the basics hence me saying that soil analysis would be a help to give some kind of instant diagnosis
It's a bit like a human,youdont need to open up a body to tell there are problems,a doctor can tell lots from the persons appearance as well as,and especially blood tests.It's the same thing for turfgrass whether it be a golf green or fairway etc which is my specialty or rl or footy pitch etc.
Looking at the pitch on the tv tells me immediately there is a problem - the problem might be simply rectified ie if it's a clay based soil,add lime etc etc then carry out regular aeration etc.
Is there already a drainage system in place ? if not then it doesn't have to cost a fortune to install one - if,as you say the turf hasn't been replaced for 80 years then maybe there isn't an existing drainage system if there is already a system then it may just need re-opening with the drill system if it's clogged or a complete new system is required.
Re-laying turf shouldn't be necesary if the basics are already in place - a newly laid turf at Headingley will soon become in bad condition again if the drainage/aeration problems aren't sorted.Look at Wembley,Old Trafford etc who sem to re-lay every couple of years.This would/should not be necessary with a proper drainage system in place.
It's not rocket science - just turf science ...
The man to ask is your head groundsman - he'll tell you what's required.'"
They know exactly what the problem is and it can now only be solved with a full deep relaying of the pitch. I just thought you making huge assumptions about why was a little out of order, investment and care have not been the issue!
Do you want to know what has caused the issues, because I will tell you if you are interested but don't want to bore everyone else if not? |
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| Quote ="Inflatable_Armadillo"They know exactly what the problem is and it can now only be solved with a full deep relaying of the pitch. I just thought you making huge assumptions about why was a little out of order, investment and care have not been the issue!
Do you want to know what has caused the issues, because I will tell you if you are interested but don't want to bore everyone else if not?'"
I would be interested,from a professional point of view because Headingley seems to suffer from problems i've encountered over the past three decades or so on golf courses and agricultural land etc so please 'pm' me if you wish.
I'll understand if you can't be bothered it doesn't matter and I won't lose any sleep over it though I would love to know what,if any drainage there is already at Headingley.I was last there in february 1999 on business and it looked a bit of a mess then. |
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| Quote ="Hopie"Mixture of standing and seating
one of the largest capacities (despite the reduction for the south stand works)
owned by the rugby club based there
Best corporate facilities in the game
best groundsman in british sport
HD screen
city with the largest rugby league support base
county with the largest rugby league support base
easy to access by road and rail
a long history of international sport at the venue
terrible choice!'"
Agree
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The M62 Friday night myth continues to bemuse me. I don't doubt there are some horror stories out there but in 20 years of leaving Leeds or Bradford at about 5-5.30 on a Friday night I've never missed a kick off in Lancashire, even when they were at 7.30 in the old days.
As for Headingley. I guess the RFL might just want to make this game pay. They want to get a decent crowd, which will inevitably need to tap into a decent directly local support base. So we're pretty much down to Headingley, DW, KC or Odsal to begin with. For me Headingley is the most logical place to hold it out of those four.
Headingley is a legacy stadium which presents its own problems but then again it is the most significant ground in the history of the sport and carries with it a cache that a flat pack stadium just doesn't have - particularly if you're trying to establish a new tradition. But unlike every other historic stadium in Super League this also isn't some -heap which has not been invested in. Other than (possibly) Naughton Park I doubt any other traditional ground has had as much spent on it in the past 20 years - we're looking at £10m+ in the pavilion, N and S Stand refurbs and rebuilds, Carnegie Stand etc on top of which is the amount Leeds have ploughed into other corporate facilities on the site which lead to that money generating machine that Hetherington is so proud of and which the RFL will be hoping to tap into.
As the RFL knows Headingley dumps over the rest of the league in the corporate facilties respect not just in terms of spaces available but in the proportion of those spaces being filled and the rates which can be achieved. I doubt the Exiles game will get the full house most Leeds games get but it will do better than in any other stadium.
The Leeds pitch issues are covered here:
www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... _1_2240103
The official club line is the RU team "is not to blame" but also that the pitch "couldn't sustain all year round rugby" which to my mind are one and the same thing. No RU = no requirement to install a new pitch. IMO. |
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The M62 Friday night myth continues to bemuse me. I don't doubt there are some horror stories out there but in 20 years of leaving Leeds or Bradford at about 5-5.30 on a Friday night I've never missed a kick off in Lancashire, even when they were at 7.30 in the old days.
As for Headingley. I guess the RFL might just want to make this game pay. They want to get a decent crowd, which will inevitably need to tap into a decent directly local support base. So we're pretty much down to Headingley, DW, KC or Odsal to begin with. For me Headingley is the most logical place to hold it out of those four.
Headingley is a legacy stadium which presents its own problems but then again it is the most significant ground in the history of the sport and carries with it a cache that a flat pack stadium just doesn't have - particularly if you're trying to establish a new tradition. But unlike every other historic stadium in Super League this also isn't some -heap which has not been invested in. Other than (possibly) Naughton Park I doubt any other traditional ground has had as much spent on it in the past 20 years - we're looking at £10m+ in the pavilion, N and S Stand refurbs and rebuilds, Carnegie Stand etc on top of which is the amount Leeds have ploughed into other corporate facilities on the site which lead to that money generating machine that Hetherington is so proud of and which the RFL will be hoping to tap into.
As the RFL knows Headingley dumps over the rest of the league in the corporate facilties respect not just in terms of spaces available but in the proportion of those spaces being filled and the rates which can be achieved. I doubt the Exiles game will get the full house most Leeds games get but it will do better than in any other stadium.
The Leeds pitch issues are covered here:
www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... _1_2240103
The official club line is the RU team "is not to blame" but also that the pitch "couldn't sustain all year round rugby" which to my mind are one and the same thing. No RU = no requirement to install a new pitch. IMO. | |
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| Quote ="MjM"The M62 Friday night myth continues to bemuse me. I don't doubt there are some horror stories out there but in 20 years of leaving Leeds or Bradford at about 5-5.30 on a Friday night I've never missed a kick off in Lancashire, even when they were at 7.30 in the old days. '"
I've not missed one either going the wrong way. Other than the 2006 Play off game which thankfully they delayed kick off for. I set of at 4pm and arrived at 8:15pm. I now set off 3 hours in advance. Which is the point really. |
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| Quote ="Lefty"I've not missed one either going the wrong way. Other than the 2006 Play off game which thankfully they delayed kick off for. I set of at 4pm and arrived at 8:15pm. I now set off 3 hours in advance. Which is the point really.'"
The one game I missed was Wire away last year and that was because some idiot wanted to throw himself off a bridge.
The bit that brings all the whines in is the 10-20min crawl past Ikea either way. But, if you're coming from the Lancastrian end of the '62, you come off at the M606 and go thataway. |
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Quote ="MjM".
The Leeds pitch issues are covered here:
www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... _1_2240103
The official club line is the RU team "is not to blame" but also that the pitch "couldn't sustain all year round rugby" which to my mind are one and the same thing. No RU = no requirement to install a new pitch. IMO.'"
thanks for the link MjM - interesting stuff
any drainage problems are,by definition deep rooted and I suspect there is no proper system installed - if one does exist then it neeeds re-doing which would mean digging up the pitch completley,installing drainage,plus underground soil heating using the recommended STRI specifications or even UGGA specs - this doesn't come cheaply and would mean the pitch being out of action a couple of months realitically. |
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Quote ="MjM".
The Leeds pitch issues are covered here:
www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/s ... _1_2240103
The official club line is the RU team "is not to blame" but also that the pitch "couldn't sustain all year round rugby" which to my mind are one and the same thing. No RU = no requirement to install a new pitch. IMO.'"
thanks for the link MjM - interesting stuff
any drainage problems are,by definition deep rooted and I suspect there is no proper system installed - if one does exist then it neeeds re-doing which would mean digging up the pitch completley,installing drainage,plus underground soil heating using the recommended STRI specifications or even UGGA specs - this doesn't come cheaply and would mean the pitch being out of action a couple of months realitically. | |
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| Quote ="Hopie"Mixture of standing and seating
one of the largest capacities (despite the reduction for the south stand works)'"
But NEVER full
Quote ="Hopie"owned by the rugby club based there'"
REALLY!!!!, I think you may find the whole thing is owned by someone else
Quote ="Hopie"Best corporate facilities in the game'"
Can't compare because how many on here for example sample "corporate"?
Quote ="Hopie"best groundsman in british sport'"
May be but the pitch is an absolute disgrace.
Quote ="Hopie"HD screen'"
You go to watch the telly rather than the game 
Quote ="Hopie"city with the largest rugby league support base '"
I doubt it, and also if it is, why is headingley never ever sold out?
Quote ="Hopie"county with the largest rugby league support base'"
Again I doubt it
Quote ="Hopie"easy to access by road and rail'"
You couldn't make it up. Best comedy line in ages
Quote ="Hopie"a long history of international sport at the venue'"
Well the cricket side did well 
Quote ="Hopie"terrible choice!'" Surprisingly I think it is a great choice.
With the exception of the brain dead, who need the noise of drums to fill the spaces between their ears, headingley has one of the best RL atmospheres |
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| Quote ="Leaguefan"REALLY!!!!, I think you may find the whole thing is owned by someone else'"
Leaguefan in not knowing what the **** he is talking about shock. |
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Quote ="sanjunien"thanks for the link MjM - interesting stuff
any drainage problems are,by definition deep rooted and I suspect there is no proper system installed - if one does exist then it neeeds re-doing which would mean digging up the pitch completley,installing drainage,plus underground soil heating using the recommended STRI specifications or even UGGA specs - this doesn't come cheaply and would mean the pitch being out of action a couple of months realitically.'"
The main point is that the pitch issue has been addressed at almost tedious length over and over and over again by Leeds; when the team was winning things its condition early in the season each year gave the fans something to whinge about but by the end of each RL season it is perfect before being abused again horribly over the winter.
The Leeds board though also seem obsessed by the thing and find it entertainingly easy to be side-tracked into never-ending discussions of baked subsoil, the perils of the residual undersoil heating wiring and whatnot. So contary to what you seemed to be suggesting it has been one of the obsessions at the club and plenty of money has been spent to address what can be addressed within the scope of practical operations and without disrupting the playing schedules of either team like Huddersfield are enduring this year and IIRC Wigan last.
It is covered in yet more detail here:
www.pitchcare.com/magazine/live-at-leeds.html
and here:
www.pitchcare.co.nz/magazine/article/465
and here:
www.pitchcare.com/magazine/headi ... indow.html
and here:
www.pitchcare.com/magazine/kioti ... pions.html
and here:
www.therhinos.co.uk/news/4619.php |
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Quote ="sanjunien"thanks for the link MjM - interesting stuff
any drainage problems are,by definition deep rooted and I suspect there is no proper system installed - if one does exist then it neeeds re-doing which would mean digging up the pitch completley,installing drainage,plus underground soil heating using the recommended STRI specifications or even UGGA specs - this doesn't come cheaply and would mean the pitch being out of action a couple of months realitically.'"
The main point is that the pitch issue has been addressed at almost tedious length over and over and over again by Leeds; when the team was winning things its condition early in the season each year gave the fans something to whinge about but by the end of each RL season it is perfect before being abused again horribly over the winter.
The Leeds board though also seem obsessed by the thing and find it entertainingly easy to be side-tracked into never-ending discussions of baked subsoil, the perils of the residual undersoil heating wiring and whatnot. So contary to what you seemed to be suggesting it has been one of the obsessions at the club and plenty of money has been spent to address what can be addressed within the scope of practical operations and without disrupting the playing schedules of either team like Huddersfield are enduring this year and IIRC Wigan last.
It is covered in yet more detail here:
www.pitchcare.com/magazine/live-at-leeds.html
and here:
www.pitchcare.co.nz/magazine/article/465
and here:
www.pitchcare.com/magazine/headi ... indow.html
and here:
www.pitchcare.com/magazine/kioti ... pions.html
and here:
www.therhinos.co.uk/news/4619.php | |
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| Quote ="MjM"Leaguefan in not knowing what the **** he is talking about shock.'"
"Paul Caddick became owner of Leeds CF&A Co Ltd in October 1996, including ownership of Headingley Stadium."
Hmm
perhaps the LEEDS RHINOS web site is wrong!!!!!
Then again several sources show Leeds Rhinos, Leeds Carnegie and Leeds Rugby Ltd as TENANTS of headingley carnegie stadium.
Of course I could be wrong!!!!
Perhaps Paul Caddick does NOT own headingley stadium after all. |
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As ever you need to be more precise in your use of language.
Leeds CF&A Ltd (Leeds Rhinos) owns Headingley RL stadium as it has done since 1890. That company is ultimately owned by Caddick group which in turn is controlled by the Caddick family. Leeds RUFC Ltd (Leeds Carnegie) are tenants of Leeds Rhinos and pay rent of £384k a year for use of the stadium to Leeds CF&A Ltd.
Saying Caddick personally owns Headingley is factually misleading and also, presumably intended, suggests there has been some sort of asset strip of the stadium away from the RL club along the lines of Valley Parade/Bradford City, but that would just not be true.
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| Quote ="Dico"I agree completely. I cant stand Headingly on a friday night'"
Well i loved it last night  |
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| Club Owner | 7665 | No
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| Oct 2003 | 21 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jan 2025 | Jun 2024 | LINK |
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Positives for using Headingley
RL owned stadium meaning the money stays in the game
Superb corporate facilities
Historical and traditional ground synonymous with Rep games
Very good pitch
Geographically central to the RL heartlands/paying public
No problems with availability
Negatives for using Headingley
Poor access and egress
Limited parking
Stereotypical image of Northern sport (wider media view)
Poor/dated spectator facilities on three sides
Possible reduced capacity due to H & S issues (South Stand)
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 9721 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Aug 2020 | Apr 2020 | LINK |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 6866 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 9721 | No
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| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Aug 2020 | Apr 2020 | LINK |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 14970 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jun 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2021 | Nov 2021 | LINK |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 2266 | No
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Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Feb 2005 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jul 2017 | Jul 2017 | LINK |
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This game may've been scheduled for the Galpharm had it not been for the fact the pitch is being completely dug up which is why the Giants are playing at the Shay from end of May till July!
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.. the irony.'"
