[quote="Smiffy27":1dfu8iia]Of course there is more to a player than just average gains like tackles, offloads, dummy runs & the important bits that cannot be measured. It would be interesting to see what sort of pack we'd come up with if we just selected the players with the best average gains in each position out of all the clubs.[/quote:1dfu8iia] Of course there is more than stats but stats are important otherwise Opta wouldn't exist and performance teams wouldn't buy data from them or fit GPS trackers on players. To be honest in this age of robotic "middles" - stats like metres made and tackles vs missed tackles are quite telling. Stats showed Vaughan as head and shoulders our best prop. I wouldn't disagree with that.

[quote="Wires71":2w6mi0b1]Of course there is more than stats but stats are important otherwise Opta wouldn't exist and performance teams wouldn't buy data from them or fit GPS trackers on players. To be honest in this age of robotic "middles" - stats like metres made and tackles vs missed tackles are quite telling. Stats showed Vaughan as head and shoulders our best prop. I wouldn't disagree with that.[/quote:2w6mi0b1] Robotic, that’s what Roy Asotasi must have been but someone had removed his batteries.

IMO Lees is massively overrated.

[quote="karetaker":2mxdurio]Robotic, that’s what Roy Asotasi must have been but someone had removed his batteries.[/quote:2mxdurio] 100% Goal Kicking though, quite an impressive stat.

Lees is like many players that are with the best teams, they look great until they move and their short comings get found out. Great teams have great player mixed with not so great players.

[quote="Snaggletooth":hhgm2xv8]Lees is like many players that are with the best teams, they look great until they move and their short comings get found out. Great teams have great player mixed with not so great players.[/quote:hhgm2xv8] I agree with your sentiment that the best teams are usually the ones that operate optimally in the 'sum of the parts' principle. Therefore it follows, especially in a salary capped sport operating in a small gene pool, the club resources are used wisely (BTW look at the mess United are in now to see its not confined to our sport) The question is, is Lees expected to be that "great player" and rewarded as such or his availability being considered for the slightly lesser but equally important "sum of the parts" role?

[quote="Wires71":1bcv8uqv]Yep "big bopper" still required. But even with Lees and Byrne the pack has a little bit more aggression than we have currently. Surely we can find a NZ, Samoan or Tongan impact monster with a decent engine? A Patrick Mago 18 stone type.[/quote:1bcv8uqv] League Express reporting that we've missed out to Wakefield for NZ wrecking ball Caius Faatili. Not sure how accurate this report is given we don't have an available quota spot, mind.

[quote="Uncle Rico":dzzuqnxm]I agree with your sentiment that the best teams are usually the ones that operate optimally in the 'sum of the parts' principle. Therefore it follows, especially in a salary capped sport operating in a small gene pool, the club resources are used wisely (BTW look at the mess United are in now to see its not confined to our sport) The question is, is Lees expected to be that "great player" and rewarded as such or his availability being considered for the slightly lesser but equally important "sum of the parts" role?[/quote:dzzuqnxm] I agree, and its a discussion we've had on the Wigan forum's too. Not every player can be a world class operator, and they all have a relative market value on the cap, so if Burgess thinks he needs Matty Lees to lead his pack for example, then he'd probably pay good money, however, if he's seen as a valued squad member, then he'd probably get well paid, but not have a massive impact on the cap. I'd assume George Williams is your marquee (fed trained) so he couldn't take that slot and Toby King was your home grown marquee (not that it matters in relation to this particular discussion) In terms of his attributes, whilst he isnt the biggest metre maker, i think he is one of Saints defensive line leaders with Knowles. When Saints are performing, he is one of the ones who set that defensive line speed, and makes the big hits. Admittedly both he and Knowles dont always get it right, but they are trying to put such speed in to force errors / big it, its invariably going to be mis-timed every now and then

[quote="Lord Tony Smith":1vdqfl1m]League Express reporting that we've missed out to Wakefield for NZ wrecking ball Caius Faatili. Not sure how accurate this report is given we don't have an available quota spot, mind.[/quote:1vdqfl1m] It's a good job. That hair cut would be unacceptable this side of the pennines, but par for the course over in Wakefield. [img:1vdqfl1m]https://www.totalrl.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/MixCollage-28-Jan-2025-10-40-AM-6011-675x360.jpg[/img:1vdqfl1m]

Also our Strawberry Blonde quota spot is full

I think Lees would be a pretty good signing. He's a unit and has a bit of needle in him. Only 26 too. Would be the sort of player who could thrive under Sam and take his game up another level. Bryne and Lee's starting props, some size there. As Wires71 says, we're just missing an 18 stone wrecking ball impact prop off the bench, a la Mago or Satae.

Briers showed how to deal with a wrecking ball prop in that CC semi final v Wigan at Widnes. Wore him out with kicks.

[quote="ninearches":2euhz2m2]Briers showed how to deal with a wrecking ball prop in that CC semi final v Wigan at Widnes. Wore him out with kicks.[/quote:2euhz2m2] i'd disagree with the kicks but do agree that you took him out of the game. I thought Monaghan ran him ragged in defence, making him turn, and tackle. When it came to him taking the ball in he was goosed and went off Now onto Mago, i think Wigan have found a sweetspot with him in the team. We have Thompson, Havard, Byrne who can all play big minutes, with Ellis another option. Mago has been causing havoc in a small or 2 small but devastating spells, usually just before or after half time. Cant remember exactly which game it was last season, but he came on and turned it by causing serious issues for the opposition in defence and won the MoM off a 15 minute cameo so my point is, if used correctly, then a wrecking ball can be very influential in a game, but equally and to your point, yes they can be nullified but not always

So as it stands right now the Redvee ITK says Knowles and Lees staying, an ITK on Wigan board says we have signed Lees. Sooooo where is Abe to shed any light on this.

Now ,Junior Nsembe impresses me but i should think he is on a long deal at Wigan.

[quote="ninearches":192mmdk1]Now ,Junior Nsembe impresses me but i should think he is on a long deal at Wigan.[/quote:192mmdk1] Pretty sure he recently signed an extension.

[quote="ninearches":1xlcm3q7]Now ,Junior Nsembe impresses me but i should think he is on a long deal at Wigan.[/quote:1xlcm3q7] Yeah as Karetaker says a 6 year deal at Wigan. Probably the best 2nd rower in the northern hemisphere RL. Could be a world beater.

[quote="Wires71":2c862obg]Yeah as Karetaker says a 6 year deal at Wigan. Probably the best 2nd rower in the northern hemisphere RL. Could be a world beater.[/quote:2c862obg] As a Wigan fan, i wouldnt say best in the northern hemisphere just yet, but i do agree he could be a world beater. His physical attributes alone make him stand out literally , but i would think Wigan will work on his strength and conditioning and he'll add a couple of KG muscle. Playing wise he is still learning and only made his breakthrough due to Willie Isa breaking his leg or we wouldnt have seen as much of him as we did last season. So this year is really his chance to cement that 2nd row spot, hopefully for the long term at Wigan, and beyond the 6 years he signed last year

[quote="Wires71":2ms55f9n]Yeah as Karetaker says a 6 year deal at Wigan. Probably the best 2nd rower in the northern hemisphere RL. Could be a world beater.[/quote:2ms55f9n] I'm surprised we're not looking at Sam Walters. Struggled for games last year and with Farrell signing a new deal it might be the same again. He's certainly got potential and a massive unit.

[quote="Mark_P1973":xae677yd]As a Wigan fan, i wouldnt say best in the northern hemisphere just yet, but i do agree he could be a world beater. His physical attributes alone make him stand out literally , but i would think Wigan will work on his strength and conditioning and he'll add a couple of KG muscle. Playing wise he is still learning and only made his breakthrough due to Willie Isa breaking his leg or we wouldnt have seen as much of him as we did last season. So this year is really his chance to cement that 2nd row spot, hopefully for the long term at Wigan, and beyond the 6 years he signed last year[/quote:xae677yd] Maybe I was too generous in saying "the best". I guess what I should have said was "if we could sign any 2nd rower in the UK, it would be him".

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/wa ... -youngster Another signing but initially for the Academy and possible loan time to Swinton in due course.

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/wa ... -youngster Another signing but initially for the Academy and possible loan time to Swinton in due course.

Daniel Coop seems like an interesting recruit let's hope it pays dividends.

Any idea what his position is just out of interest?

[quote="Or thane":vaprqo5n]Any idea what his position is just out of interest?[/quote:vaprqo5n] Beat me to it Great journalism eh?

[quote="Or thane":mkf7c4mh]Any idea what his position is just out of interest?[/quote:mkf7c4mh] Centre, apparently. Controversial move, this, as Uncle Rico assured us that our strawberry blond quota was already full. We must have got a special dispensation!