Not really because the first one is easily high enough to run a SL club off, the second one probably is and the third one is borderline but not low enough that they're at risk of folding.

Celtic Crusaders v Harlequins Rugby League April 19th 2009.
Attendance 3,009. HTH

God damn the facts.

well without looking at the criteria (cant be d right now) i would imagine the rfl would have the sense to put things into context. first thing: attendances over 3 years which is fair enough but also the extra press coverage, the juniors, samuels dosh, the wales team, just the whole presence of rugby league in a new market. Its unfair that we have these advantages over the smaller heartland teams buts that life and i think for the health of the game overall these things need to be taken into account.
Its worth noting (not knowing how this works with other clubs) but the crusaders really do underpin the development of the code in wales. i mentioned the junior teams being put out. it was a pilot scheme last season and now its going full blown this season. These are the teams:
* Blackwood Bulldogs
* Bridgend Blue Bulls
* Cardiff Demons
* Dinefwr Sharks
* Neath Port Talbot Steelers
* Newport Titans
* Penallta Storm
* Pontyclun Panthers
* Rhyl Coasters
* Swansea Dragons
* Torfaen Tigers
* Tydfil Wildcats
* Valley Cougars
* West Wales Wild Boars
So in two years we have gone from no junior teams to 14 (although rhyl are doing there own thing) x2 or 3 (under 13s, under 15s and under 17s i think). All part of a pyramid of development with the crusaders at the apex with a ton of the coaching done by crusaders players and coaches. So thats what around 600 kids playing rugby league who were not beforehand. Seems like decent numbers to me.

And they are, its just that the RFL has decided that nothing, individually, is more important than attendance. The context the RFL has decided to put it in is that all that development work and new teams is worth, at most, 1 point and even then only when all those teams you list start to produce players for you and attendance is worth at least 2, maybe more.

So if anyone is pi$$ed off at constant talk about attendances then direct your ire at the body who decided that attendance was so important.

To repeat what I said in my original post, the above is not to say that any criticism contained within said 'discussion' is necessarily valid, imho.

To save you the hassle:

Capacity of 12,000 +
Premier competition standard ground
Average crowd of 10,000+
Operating at 40 per cent full
Turn over £4million +
Solvent
Contribution to competition
Junior development
No salary cap breaches
No club within 20 miles

"exciting"? Wait a minute. Where did you get "exciting" from? I don't tend to find a counted number of people "exciting"?


It's not a "novelty", though. Silly choice of word.


"If I think"? Where did I refer to what is a "viable crowd to run a SL club on", at any point? Much less whether the latest crowd of CC is it? I mean come on, what are you on? And if that crowd was give or take a handful the same as every crowd they ever got, or was their average, then it might be worth assessing, but you seem to be saying that the litmus test is what crowd they got for that single fixture. Which is with respect barking.




You "judge" them? Do they quake?
What is your salary for this task?


Mmm. A business is more likely to fold if things do NOT go to plan, than if things DO go to plan. I see. Do you also make money publishing these blinding revelations? You ought to.


It isn't.


Hang on again. It was me who corrected you on the point that it isn't relevant! Catalans may have some relevance in the sense of how they performed in their first season, but even you must surely be able to tell that there is a difference between the Perpignan area which is a hotbed of RL, and South Wales, which, er, isn't?


As it is irrelevant, stop banging on about it!


Whose assumption? Is this an assumption you invented, so that you could then say it is wrong? I repeat, what are you on?





"We"? This the royal "We"? Look, I'm afraid you're just rambling on in meaningless banalities and non sequiturs now, so I'll leave you to it.

Thanks for covering my laziness

I personally only see two points there that are crowd related and as with everyone else we are on an exciting stadium promise which will take care of point one.
But anyway i think you are mistaken. I think the criteria is designed so that plenty of clubs end up on the same level (grade c?) making a few points difference irrelevant so that the rfl can then bring to bear judgement. Its when its deciding between say 6 cubs for 4 licenses that our development work becomes the key. I dont think the rfl will throw it all away for the sake of a few thousand extra speccies.
Anyway as a season ticket holder im not decrying crowds, although i've enjoyed all the games so far in terms of atmosphere i want to see bigger and bigger crowds and i think we have the potential to do that. Its just as much a reaction to sad little muppets who first thought is to jump to sportinglife.com to check the attendances so they can slag off whoever they want to slag off this week.

If this swine flu spreads to the UK i'm going to hide out at Brewery Field, at least I will be safe from coming into close contact with other people.

It's always difficult promoting a team that has lost 10 Super League games on the bounce. The success will come definately you guy's down in South Wales are doing a fantastic job. This season was always going to be very difficult to say the least.
As for the crowd, Salford Quins, and Wakey hardly set the world alight. The Wakey v Wigan crowd only managing 5000 ish and that's with Wakey being in blistering good form. NOT good.

Give it a wee while yet, couple of wins under the belt and of course when all these welsh youngsters get their chance in the first team squad.

Crowds will obviously come with a few wins and just to add the Welsh teams in union hardly have massive attendances!

Totally agree. Their youth set up is coming on well, the wins will come. Le Cats success didn't happen overnight.

What's that got to do with the home turn out?Wasn't the huge Salford/Manchester conurbation with 3 million people on the doorstep a trump card played in the licence application?

You need to START with a strong franchise and build from there. Not start with a weak franchise and hope it builds. Samuel needs to pump some money in, get some marquee international quality players, sort the stadium and market the club. I cant believe how little people care about just how poor the 2 new franchises are. The Aussies would be screaming blue murder if the NRL behaved like this.

Club won`t be around much longer I`ve heard .

which club and on what excellent authority do you hear this

Jacob's Club. Rumoured to be bowing out of the biscuit market soon.

"If you like a lot of chocolate on your biscuit join our club!".

Sad times.

Tony Clubb - he's off to be a pro greyhound trainer.

So why are they getting kicked out of the Brewery Field then -according to todays Guardian anyway ... If I was a Widnes fan I`d be furious www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/ap ... nch-injury `League is likely to be played at another union stronghold later this year with England's international against Wales set to be staged at the Gnoll in Neath on 17 October. That reflects a deterioration in the relationship between the Welsh Super League newcomers Celtic Crusaders and their landlords at Bridgend's Brewery Field, which could also see several of their home matches switched to other venues this summer.`

So why are they getting kicked out of the Brewery Field then -according to todays Guardian anyway ... If I was a Widnes fan I`d be furious www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/ap ... nch-injury `League is likely to be played at another union stronghold later this year with England's international against Wales set to be staged at the Gnoll in Neath on 17 October. That reflects a deterioration in the relationship between the Welsh Super League newcomers Celtic Crusaders and their landlords at Bridgend's Brewery Field, which could also see several of their home matches switched to other venues this summer.`

Quote ="Quadrivium"So why are they getting kicked out of the Brewery Field then -according to todays Guardian anyway ... If I was a Widnes fan I`d be furious www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/ap ... nch-injury `League is likely to be played at another union stronghold later this year with England's international against Wales set to be staged at the Gnoll in Neath on 17 October. That reflects a deterioration in the relationship between the Welsh Super League newcomers Celtic Crusaders and their landlords at Bridgend's Brewery Field, which could also see several of their home matches switched to other venues this summer.`'" disgusting. Where's the respect for RL and SL? The RFL and Crusaders havent shown any with this franchise effort. Im all for expansion into Wales but do it properly ffs.

Quote ="Quadrivium"So why are they getting kicked out of the Brewery Field then -according to todays Guardian anyway ... If I was a Widnes fan I`d be furious www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/ap ... nch-injury `League is likely to be played at another union stronghold later this year with England's international against Wales set to be staged at the Gnoll in Neath on 17 October. That reflects a deterioration in the relationship between the Welsh Super League newcomers Celtic Crusaders and their landlords at Bridgend's Brewery Field, which could also see several of their home matches switched to other venues this summer.`'" disgusting. Where's the respect for RL and SL? The RFL and Crusaders havent shown any with this franchise effort. Im all for expansion into Wales but do it properly ffs.

Quote ="Quadrivium"So why are they getting kicked out of the Brewery Field then -according to todays Guardian anyway ... If I was a Widnes fan I`d be furious www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/ap ... nch-injury `League is likely to be played at another union stronghold later this year with England's international against Wales set to be staged at the Gnoll in Neath on 17 October. That reflects a deterioration in the relationship between the Welsh Super League newcomers Celtic Crusaders and their landlords at Bridgend's Brewery Field, which could also see several of their home matches switched to other venues this summer.`'" Why? The LAST thing SL needs is another club within 10 miles or so of another which is what will preclude Fax I reckon as well and Leigh. But then again theRFL does work in mysterious ways cos I reckon certain "high profile" clubs should never have got a franchise in the first place if the RFL had been "honest". Water under the bridge now and all to play for come 2011. How many new stadia will be built by then? Development schemes well advanced and in operation? I can't wait to see the RFL get round their "system" cos if history teaches anything the RFL NEVER keep to their word. "Framing the Future" anyone

Quote ="Quadrivium"So why are they getting kicked out of the Brewery Field then -according to todays Guardian anyway ... If I was a Widnes fan I`d be furious www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/ap ... nch-injury `League is likely to be played at another union stronghold later this year with England's international against Wales set to be staged at the Gnoll in Neath on 17 October. That reflects a deterioration in the relationship between the Welsh Super League newcomers Celtic Crusaders and their landlords at Bridgend's Brewery Field, which could also see several of their home matches switched to other venues this summer.`'" Why? The LAST thing SL needs is another club within 10 miles or so of another which is what will preclude Fax I reckon as well and Leigh. But then again theRFL does work in mysterious ways cos I reckon certain "high profile" clubs should never have got a franchise in the first place if the RFL had been "honest". Water under the bridge now and all to play for come 2011. How many new stadia will be built by then? Development schemes well advanced and in operation? I can't wait to see the RFL get round their "system" cos if history teaches anything the RFL NEVER keep to their word. "Framing the Future" anyone

I wish they'd all stop banging on about their junior development in wales. They're the only pro club in a whole bloody country. I'd be worried if they weren't attached to local clubs, how hard can it be with no competition?

we'll bang on about it as long as we like. no competition? i'll give you 2 mins to clear your head so you can think about why you've just made the most daft statement possible.

err,,,, there is no competition from any other pro club in wales, cos there isnt one. Crusaders are the only one!!!!!!! Der

Why do Crusaders not own brewery field anymore? Did they ever own it? Why risk having union have you kicked out of your ground.