So who had five days in the "how long will it take XBrettKennyX to start a thread on how it's the fault of everybody else and especially the communist salary cap* that Wigan are trophyless for another year" sweepstake?


* with an extra bonus for anyone who predicted that he'd be so wound up at yet another Wigan loss that he'd confuse the salary cap (or SC) with the Challenge Cup (or CC)

In the last 6 years Saints have won one title, Bradford 2 and Leeds 3 - yet SL is a one horse Saints race?

Maybe you'd rather go back to pre-cap days and watch Saints win it more often.

you have to remember it is only the last 2 years when all clubs have been able to spend the same due to the previous 50% ruling. Over the next 5-10 years we will see the comp really even out and more clubs become reliant on their jnrs (who often clst less money than imported players)

Why wait 10 YEARS,go to bloody union now,who gives a flying duck.

Absolutely right

In the past few decades one of the biggest problems RL had was chopping and changing long term strategies when they didnt yield quick results.

The SC is just starting to bear fruit, the [icompletely level[/i salary cap is speeding the process up and that will be further compounded by no automatic relegation (meaning teams can have the security that allows young players to be tried out)

As has been said, the problems some clubs *cough*wigan*cough* face is their own over reliance on average antipodeans rather than good young British players, but then thats something other clubs *cough*Huddersfield*cough* have benifited from.

(Cue wigan fans saying how much better their current squad is than Huddersfields)

Myler came from the widnes academy, not the salford one, he was playing first team for widnes when they went t!ts up.

Perhaps true then but certainley not true now and the number of overseas players is decreasing year on year, which will lead to a larger talent pool on british players. If given time.

Indeed Pyeman, at times this season Huddersfield have fielded a starting 13 that was made soley of british players, and I think a full 17 that had no overseas players in the lineup.

Standards haven't slipped at my club. We are a million miles better in EVERY facet on on off the field than we were in the days when Wigan dominated the sport.

I'd imagine St helens fans would say the same. And the Bulls, notwithstanding slippages in on field results this year.

I'd guess a Huddersfield fan thinks standards at their club are better than they were 1985-1995.

Probably most clubs would agree, bar Wigan.

So standards are falling at Wigan compared to the era in which they completed dominated the sport. I'll give you 8that. But that doesn't mean standards in the game are falling. because, however delusional Wigan fans from that era may be, Wigan are not "the game". They're one club within it.

And a clubs form rises and falls in cycles.

As a Wigan lad brought up watching Wigan RL win everything through the late 80's and early 90's, I simply don't get this concept of falling standards

You cannot watch old videos of a Wigan team destroying everybody and say that standards have fallen - that was a full time professional team playing part timers... put that equation into any sport and the pro's will come out on top

I think that Andy Gregory and Ellery Hanley were superstars of the game and immensely talented in different ways but the rest of the Wigan team (GB Players) of that era were good pro's but not outstanding. Danny McGuire is at least as good a player as a Sean Edwards was (I think better) - parachute McGuire into the Wigan team of the 80's and he would be a superstar

Same with Phil Clarke for example... no doubt in my mind that Joe Westerman is a more talented player

I could go on - but the point is that equalising standards does not necessarily reduce them

You'll have given one or two of them heart attacks with that kind of comment.

Shaun Edwards was a support player without peer, they are similar in styles in so many ways imo.

Dennis Moran was a great player......Wigan saw him play, they decided they wanted him, so they bought him and ruined him. He went from Joint SL try scorer 2 years running to "the worst signing in the history of Wigan" to quote some bitter fool on the goons board.
Wigan fans do seem to be the only ones bitchin9 about the cap and only ever after they have been beaten, knocked out of the cup or had to break the cap to stay in SL........

The funny thing is it wouldnt make much difference to Wigan if the cap was lifted, they'd still be mid table.

No, he wasn't.

Well thats strange, i seem to recall him making his debut in the first team in 2007, and doing rather well too.

Spot on.

Yes, he was. Smart .

He played at Batley and Castleford, IIRC.

I knew he had played in a couple of games but I was thinking more along the lines of regular first team appearances. I have no doubt that he would have gone on to be a regular feature but it seemed like the original poster was insinuating that he was playing regularly.

er....wriggle away, but you did get there all on your own and you have nobody but yourself to blame.

Come on - I mean there is a difference. Andrew Thornley made one appearance when on loan for us against Saints this season. I would never say "he's been playing first team rugby". Widnes obviously should take a lot of the credit for Myler but we did sign a 17 year old half back and start him from day one of the season which in most cases you wouldn't expect to happen.

Quote ="XBrettKennyX"Essentially Warrington won on Saturday as they were not as bad as Wigan. They did try their best to hit the suicide button, but Wigan were simply not clinical enough to exploit it. Two very average sides. Or at least that was the hypothesis. After the disappointment of Saturday I have been watching some old Wigan games, not to cheer me up, but to answer a question that came into my head repeatedly throughout the game- what on earth has happened to the standard of play/player in RL in the UK? The harsh reality is that in the last 15 years the only area in which the game has moved on is fitness/strength. In almost every other area it has gone backwards. There are fewer superstars, less entertaining football (maybe connected to the first one, maybe not), and certainly less "memorable" games. I asked myself "Surely the CC cannot be responsible for ALL of this". Sadly I found myself time and time again coming to the conclusion that it has. The CC is a very powerful weapon in RL in the UK, it effectively drags down teams to the lowest average level (it has to mathematically, and thus by it's very nature breeds mediocrity). "But they have a CC in Austrailia and that works". Well yes and no. They do have one, but the level of media attention ensures that a top players earnings outside his direct salary in Oz will earn far more than one over here. "They have one in American Football" - yes, however, that is in a country where there is no viable alternative to playing Gridiron (if you are cut out for that type of game), oh and there is also the massive absolute difference in the cap, not to mention sponsorship/other earnings opportunities. The difference in the UK is that the CC is really hurting the product on display. Few people notice this as the process has been a gradual one over time. Watching video's of how RL used to be played rams home this blunt fact. Not surprising when we lose players such as: www.swinglow.net/news/viewarticle.asp?id=21584 Which brings us back to the display on Saturday. We can't blame the players (on both sides) for not being up to it. They did their best. The truth is they are simply not as talented as those who would have competed in the same game 15 years ago. Yet who is really to blame for the continued acceptance of this mediocrity? Well people like me. In just over 2 weeks time I will trudge down to Wembley, as I have done for 20 odd years and watch the game. I now realise I am giving tacit approval to the CC in principle, and more importantly to it's effect on the game. Well this will be the last time I do it. Enough is enough. I am no longer prepared to accept a second rate spectacle. If I had wanted to see "competitive" or "level playing field" games, I would go and watch Amateur RL. In 10 years in order to see true talent I believe RU will be my only option.'" You can always rely on Tweedledum for a deluded and entertaining post. Now where's Tweedledee (Deano G), the other half of the Brothers Dimm, to add his, equally ludicrious, opinion?

Quote ="XBrettKennyX"Essentially Warrington won on Saturday as they were not as bad as Wigan. They did try their best to hit the suicide button, but Wigan were simply not clinical enough to exploit it. Two very average sides. Or at least that was the hypothesis. After the disappointment of Saturday I have been watching some old Wigan games, not to cheer me up, but to answer a question that came into my head repeatedly throughout the game- what on earth has happened to the standard of play/player in RL in the UK? The harsh reality is that in the last 15 years the only area in which the game has moved on is fitness/strength. In almost every other area it has gone backwards. There are fewer superstars, less entertaining football (maybe connected to the first one, maybe not), and certainly less "memorable" games. I asked myself "Surely the CC cannot be responsible for ALL of this". Sadly I found myself time and time again coming to the conclusion that it has. The CC is a very powerful weapon in RL in the UK, it effectively drags down teams to the lowest average level (it has to mathematically, and thus by it's very nature breeds mediocrity). "But they have a CC in Austrailia and that works". Well yes and no. They do have one, but the level of media attention ensures that a top players earnings outside his direct salary in Oz will earn far more than one over here. "They have one in American Football" - yes, however, that is in a country where there is no viable alternative to playing Gridiron (if you are cut out for that type of game), oh and there is also the massive absolute difference in the cap, not to mention sponsorship/other earnings opportunities. The difference in the UK is that the CC is really hurting the product on display. Few people notice this as the process has been a gradual one over time. Watching video's of how RL used to be played rams home this blunt fact. Not surprising when we lose players such as: www.swinglow.net/news/viewarticle.asp?id=21584 Which brings us back to the display on Saturday. We can't blame the players (on both sides) for not being up to it. They did their best. The truth is they are simply not as talented as those who would have competed in the same game 15 years ago. Yet who is really to blame for the continued acceptance of this mediocrity? Well people like me. In just over 2 weeks time I will trudge down to Wembley, as I have done for 20 odd years and watch the game. I now realise I am giving tacit approval to the CC in principle, and more importantly to it's effect on the game. Well this will be the last time I do it. Enough is enough. I am no longer prepared to accept a second rate spectacle. If I had wanted to see "competitive" or "level playing field" games, I would go and watch Amateur RL. In 10 years in order to see true talent I believe RU will be my only option.'" You can always rely on Tweedledum for a deluded and entertaining post. Now where's Tweedledee (Deano G), the other half of the Brothers Dimm, to add his, equally ludicrious, opinion?

How many games do you have to play in the first team before you are classed as playing first team rugby in your opinion? Most of the credit for developing myler into the player he currently is is down to widnes, which is why i originally posted as it was suggested that salford were responsible for mylers development.

i'd go a step further and say players trained by a club dont cost under the salary cap until aged 21. add to that heavy compensation for taking a player under 23 from his original club.

I see a lot comparisons with aussie players. remember they have had a bigger talent pool for a longer period of time not to mention far superior junior structures and coaching. RL's junior talent pool has only really gone national here in the last decade and we have a lot of catching up to do in coaching etc..... but on the bright side look at places like london, the junior development and amateur game there is exciting for RL's future.