No. I'm a Saints fan and so, without wanting to sound arrogant, it's unlikely we'll face the prospect of not being in the top 8.

My opposition is twofold:

1) I think the principle of 'franchising' is correct. It guarantees stability, allowing SL clubs to plan with a sense of certainty. As I said, the prevalence of younger players being brought through has been tangible evidence of the change of approach. Before this we had the merry-go-round of the same journeyman players jumping between lower-SL clubs and the promoted team(s) because the clubs were terrified of relegation and didn't have the time to build a team from within their own ranks. It acted against the flow of young players being brought through, and as such worked against the longer term interests of the game.
I do recognise that the clubs in SL are there by accident of timing, and it is, I accept, unfair on those clubs outside of the SL club. IMO, their challenge would be to make the Championship a competition in itself which attracts public interest.

2) the new structure is overly complex. I've tried explaining the SL play-off system (and, indeed, that of the WC) to non-RL fans, and I see their eyes glaze over and their interest wanes. The SL play-off is unnecessarily complex (and should have fewer clubs than

, and this new structure will amplify the view of the non-RL fan (whose money we need to attract if we are to progress) that RL is too complicated .

There needed to be 10 clubs present for it to be possible for a vote to take place. Once a vote took place it needed a majority in favour to be passed. The 7-6 vote was just something that somebody mentioned they had heard (a rumour). People had also been talking of a walkout from the meeting when the meeting had not yet begun (another rumour). Some rumours will be true, some won't. There were enough present to allow a vote to occur and that vote approved the proposals. That's all that really matters.

The fact stands that SL clubs and the RFL have brought this about by making a mockery of the franchising system. People take great pleasure in comparing Bradford/Widness/London to Fax/Fev/Leigh but that cant ever be a fair comparison whilst on is on 1.8m of central funding and the other is on less than 100k. If you give either Fev, Fax or Leigh 1.8m a season and competitive games to bring in the fans the comparison would be much less favourable to the SL clubs.

Correct my view exactly

Regarding the season ticket issue, while it is a valid concern some people are making assumptions based on what they think their club will do and then, like the stereotypical daily mail reader are frothing at the mouth based on their own (or sometimes someone else's) assumption without actually knowing how clubs will deal with the issue.

There has been no mention of any centrally dictated method for grouping and selling match tickets. As it has been previously it will be up to the individual clubs to sell season tickets in whatever form they choose to.

There seem to be a few possible approaches they could take.

1 ) A club could sell a season ticket for the initial 12 team phase and then have the 3 or 4 (not seven, away games are not on season tickets unless you are a child) second phase home games treated as pay on the day individual games as with cup and playoff games.

2 ) A club could sell a season ticket for the 11 first phase games and then offer a bolt on group ticket for the 3 or 4 second phase games.

3 ) A club could choose to sell a whole season ticket that covered all 14 or 15 games in both league phases.

4 ) A club could offer a range of options prior to the season starting so that individual fans could purchase the package they wish. Fans could then opt for a whole season ticket regardless of opposition, an initial phase season ticket with bolt on where payment for the bolt on was automatically taken after round 21 (for example) unless they chose to opt out prior to round 21, or an option to buy a first phase ticket only with a chance to opt in to a second phase bolt on.

Individual clubs will decide which type of season ticket system would work best for them and their supporters and use that. There is no certainty that every club in a particular 12 team league will operate or try to operate the same scheme, nor that every supporter at an individual club will have to buy a season ticket under the same scheme. The price and format of season tickets for 2015 will not be known until September at the earliest. If people want to bemoan the system then it will be fine but to whinge now about what they assume will happen based on something else that they assume will happen as if it is set in stone is just pointless and daft.

It's going to be interesting attracting new fans when half of the current fans will probably struggle to understand the format.

It's another complex and unnecessary 'innovation' and I wouldn't even know where to start trying to explain it to my mates who follow other sports and catch the odd RL game.

There will be many fans who won't even bother with the details of the new format, they'll just turn up to the games whenever their team is playing. I may be one of them.

Now I can agree with this to a point. My point is that I never started watching RL because of the type of system in place.

I started watching because I enjoyed the spectical and the competition between the sides.

IF this adds to the entertainment and the competition, then knowing how the structure works will be irrelevant to new fans.

A bit like the WC, did new fans kick up a fuss that not all the league were even and that 3 teams came out of some leagues less out of others???

The structure is there, but no one watches for the structure. They watch for entertainment and the passion of following your local side.

so how much was the funding before the franchise system? It not like those clubs haven't had a chance before is it. Its more like enough years have passed for some people to forgot how bad super league was with promotion and relegation and the amount of journeyman that was in super league to try and avoid relegation.

Not much difference to today then??

"Overly complex", "struggle to understand"......its actually very very simple.

It seems its only complex to SL fans. The SL clubs have agreed to it...they didn't have to and if SL or indeed Champ clubs bankrupt themselves trying to stay or get in SL1, then that is entirely the clubs fault not the RFLs. Time for the marketing guys to actually earn their salaries and market their club.

No one has a divine right to a position at the top table.

You were wrong about Super League V Aviva Premiership attendances, you were wrong about the new Super League structure (you hadn't been bothered enough to read the details) and now this.

Let's take a historical look at this alleged Yo-Yo effect in Super League during periods of P&R.

=#FF0000SL 1997: Salford promoted - finished 6th out of 12.
SL 1998: Hull FC promoted - finished 9th out of 12.
SL 1999: Wakefield promoted - finished 11th out of 14.
SL 2002: Widnes promoted - finished 7th out of 12.
SL 2003: Huddersfield promoted - finished 10th out of 12.
SL 2004: Salford promoted - finished 9th out of 12.
=#0000BFSL 2005: Leigh promoted - finished 12th out of 12 and RELEGATED!
SL 2006: Castleford promoted - finished 11th out of 12 and RELEGATED in favour of Catalan 12th.
=#FF0000SL 2007: Hull KR promoted - finished 11th out of 12.

So that's just 1 team (Leigh) who got promoted and finished bottom of SL and relegated the following season. Then there was 1 team (Castleford) who got promoted and finished 11th but were relegated in order to preserve Catalans SL status.

Got any more Yo-Yo examples which came to nothing?

Not forgetting Wigans dubious activities to avoid relegation that year as well!

I'm not one to side with William (look at WC threads)

But it's interesting that were people were split over the RLWC, the new splits are from those who were previously together on other things.

Look at me and Magic Super Beetle. Same club, both fairly positive, yet completely opposite views on this.

I think that demonstrates it's a talking point that will go on for 12 months until we actually see a real outcome, rather than the theorized possibilities.

I am open minded and if it does not work I'm happy to say it was tried and failed. I just wish those against would be open minded too that it may work and that it's not actually the end of RL. Something does not last for 100 years through many structures and tests and suddenly collapse due to a structural change.

ok now post the relegations and compare them and see the yo-yo effect. And I'm not wrong about the structures its over complicated. Also i stand by that those figures for Aviva are inflated i watch a lot of union on tv and its easy to see that tigers don't have a sell out every weekend.

Whilst I'm not a huge fan of the whole idea, it's no where near what I'd call difficult to understand. Saying so only reinforces the stereotype of rugby league fans.

I've slept on it, and I'm starting to think it's not the most terrible idea in the world, and there are good aspects to it, it's just up to the clubs to keep the fans informed (let's be honest there are some clubs who are as/ more incompetent than the rfl)

Indeed.

In 2006 we ended up with a fantastic relegation battle at the end of the season between Wakefield and Castleford in front of a packed Belle Vue. I attended as a neutral and have not experienced an atmosphere anywhere near as good since.

It was a shame that either of those teams had to be relegated, particularly when one considers the protection afforded to Wigan and Catalans that year who were already considered to be SL franchises!

Thank goodness licensing/franchising has finally been scrapped for the good of the game.

Not often I ever agree with you but I do on this situation. The difference between that system (which worked!) and this is the newly promoted club were on an even playing field. They were full time and got full sky money Etc

With this system it is completely Unfair on the championship clubs as they part time.

Some are getting excited as they See away of getting into SL. They don't. ) current SL teams will likely make up the second tier. That leaves 2 poss championship clubs to get I the second tier. Be interesting to bears Leigh's/Fax/Fev fans views when they struggle to get on the second tier and have to play Barrow/Doncaster/Workington for third time in a year to play for the 3rd division title (which doesn't get you promoted)

Financial oblivion is more likely than seeing any of the championship clubs in SL.

could say the same but the difference being they won a championship whilst breaking the salary cap. Wigan didn't even break it they differed payments which was against the spirit of the cap apparently.

That's why I said dubious as opposed to illegal / rule breaking.

Yo-Yo's go up and immediately go down. Which part of "7 teams out of 9 promoted to Super League were not immediately relegated" do you not understand?


Only according to those who are stupid and/or can't be bothered to check the details of the new structure.

A big test of the RFL et al.'s resolve in this will be how deep in the more Bradford find themselves. The RFL want Bradford in superleague. Leeds and GH want Bradford in superleague (the revenue from Bradford fans still surpasses most other teams to headingly). If they avoid relegation this year, it will still take a massive effort to not be in the relegation fight in 2015. Let's see if the term "dispensation" starts to crop up then

Even alone each would take more to an away game then London or Catalans!!!!!!

and who defines the word yo-yo? wasn't super league looking for stability and not for a club to spend a season or 2 in super league and then go down, and then swap players with the club being promoted that was happening every year. hence the franchising system.

Seriously your spouting off about people not reading the details they haven't even been decided you grade 1 tool.

honestly virtual terrace has become a dump with you and gutterfax.

Has a Leigh fan I am happy with the new structure, but would have been happy with any structure that gave me a chance to see top flight RL again. But these people saying it is too complicated must be really under educated as it is quite easy to understand IMO and I'm far from a clever bloke. I will be surprised if by 2015 leigh under our new board and increased funding & salary cap are not running has a full time club along with Fev, poss Fax plus the two teams relegated this season. That could potentially mean the middle 8 in 2015 after the split would mean 8 full time teams battling it out for 4 SL places in 2016.