What has buying a failed hotel in need of restoration have to do with Kevin Sinfield winning the Golden Boot? I really think you've gone a wee bit insane.

And a player in SL can rightfully win the GB and has because the people who vote for the award think he was the rightful winner, just because you don't agree doesn't make it so.

Also 'the vast majority'? I'm intruiged, how do you know this? Can I see your research and findings? Or are you just making things up?

Other than being the SPAG police what purpose do you serve. You are a Leeds fan who seems to have forgotten how Sir Kev was unable to prevent a second successive defeat in the CC final despite being the worlds best player. Once watched Ellery help Wigan win a CC Final v their arch rivals on one 'good leg' owing to an injury. Slight difference in quality and leadership though.

A Leeds fan that cannot recognise that Rob Burrow was as important to Leeds GF successes in the last 2 seasons and that without the menance of Burrow at 9 and the very basic boring yardage game Sir Kev would have not been able to kick superbly because he had the time and field position. Without it, Sir Kev tends to end up on his backside.

You then throw in the second rate nature of SL and you see teams self harm as Wigan did blowing a simple victory even minus Tomkins. A rookie FB dropped a kick and an experienced half failed to run the clock down etc. Wire are a team who classically self harm too. However, at least Wire and Wigan at time play some entertaining RL. Leeds are not a wonderfully entertaining team BUT they employ very successful conservative play off tactics to take advantage of mediocre SL teams.

People can enjoy British RL. Mistakes make for entertainment in almost every sport. I find amateur or schooboy RL can be entertaining to watch. However, I understanmd what I am watching and do not ever presume it is elite RL and that it is all second rate. Something that pros going to play in Aus readily testify. Sadler et al need to read what say a young British fullback Matty Russell says about standards, training and maybe then he would understand why a player can go from Britain and be improve considerable in a very short space of time. He might also understand why it takes our players so long to develop their potential, if they ever do.

British RL/SL is second rate and no British player can win the GB unless that play in the NRL UNTIL we become the best RL playing nation. Not a difficult concept. If such awards were available to all then why do Sadler et al not include championship players in the Goldthorpe system.

Who decides on awards? The GB has reared its head because we are told the number of overseas judges was cut for noapparent reason and we then had an absurd award.

Awards by peers are far more valuable. Yes, even those have limitations Printer BUT the results are more accurate, meaningful and arguably better dare I say deserving. I dislike all MOM awards BTW. Lance Todd, Harry Sunderland etc The press should report on games that they watch not judge awards. Peer awards whilst not perfecect are better than letting the media or fans near such things.

No you did not read or even understand. I said LP could do more productive things such as launching a campaign to have the George Hotel, the birthplace of RL secured. I presume that is unimportant.

Christopher draw yourself a badge and award to yourself in your bedroom. Would it make it rightful just because you decided you deserved it.

People have rightly questioned the award process, LP are afraid to be open and honest about the vote process, even people who contribute to LP but did not take part are disagreeing with the decision. Andrews and Mascord have more credibility than anyboy in these forum or elsewhere in the LP ranks BTW.

If you trawl the internet even the LP forum then other than Leeds fans, the vast majority of fans have said virtually the same thing. Nice chap but not the best in the world. Enjoy reading them.

33 pages? I can't wait for the new season so we have something else to whinge about.

Irrelevant! He's won it - get over it. It's in the annals of history and no matter how much you bleat about it you can NEVER change that.

I'm going to throw a spanner into the works by reminding everyone that New Zealand are the current world champions.

Yes I do understand what second-rate means, what you fail to get inside that closed mind of yours is that not everybody agrees with you.....shock horror! And why should I listen to Mal Reilly when you and others dismiss Darren Lockyer's opinion on Sinfield.



Vast majority??? Again making this up, so if you can keep making incorrect generalisations then I thought I'd stoop to your low level





It was actually a third successive CC Final, which probably only goes to demonstrate how little you pay proper attention to British RL because you're too busy daydreaming about being in the showers with a bunch of NRL players

. And whilst yes Burrow played a key role last year, I would actually say the key element at hooker in this years playoffs was when we brought Lunt on, you might've realised this if you payed attention.

You say we got conservative in the playoffs yet we averaged 27 points a game, only 3 points down on the regular season average of 30. And when you consider big scores against the likes of Widnes and Salford push the latter number up then not too different come playoff time. I get the impression you only really watched the game against Wigan, where yes we played more basic stuff but that was largely down to missing McGuire. You must have been at the toilet when Hall scored in the GF, watch that play back and deem it conservative! If anything it was Warrington who tighten up in the GF, they didn't stretch the defence like they did at Wembley, didn't go over to Leeds' suspect right side defence enough and apart from the early kick which BJB dropped their kicking was very ordinary and pretty safe asking no questions of the catchers. Perhaps also watch back when we take a 14-6 lead and knock on by trying to force things to the edges in are own half, that lead to Warrington pegging us back to 14-14 by halftime. Things you'd noticed if you payed close attention and not incorrect generalisations again.



See above answer!

Clearly you don't, we've established that.



So we listen to Matty Russell but not the likes of Sam Burgess (or Lockyer) who have praised Sinfield. How about the some of the comments Buderus made when he returned to Australia about the negative style of NRL. All 3 hold more weight than Russell.


In your opinion.

Again, in your OPINION.



All MOM awards? What about when the likes of John Kear and Jonathan Davies picks the winner on BBC games? I said for something like the GB the media is much more ideal as they will watch more games from BOTH sides of the world. In between watching videos of SL opposition, getting ready for matches, keeping an eye on their academy talents, setting and running training, doing media work, having families and more how many games of NRL do you think the likes of McDermott and Wane get to see to make a proper judgement on who is the best. I would imagine that some SL coaches and captains only saw the likes of Cameron Smith and Ben Barba only a couple of times this year.

It's still so 'transparent' that it's not who voted, simply who won it that truely upsets you. Funny how the only other past winners you've mentioned as not being worthy are Farrell and Schofield. Surely if the modern media are that unsuitable to pick such awards then Golden Boots won by the likes of Smith, Slater and co are all as equally worthless but you've never said so. Ahh but bless the voting process doesn't get slammed these years just because you got a winner YOU agree with. You'll retort with the number of judges being cut, but surely it doesn't matter if its 10 judges or 100, if they're all the despicable modern media it doesn't matter, the NRL winners should be deemed just as unworthy.

You need to grow up and not sulk just because people haven't agreed with your opinion.

Oh if we're gunna use international results to determine how good a league is then lets look at football again.

Brazil 5 World Cups
Spain 1
England 1
France 1

Does this make the Brazilian league 5 times better than those other 3?

Colombia are currently ranked 5th in the world (yes Colombia) ahead of England, France, Holland, Portugal and Brazil. Does this mean their league is much better than all of those countries? Hardly.

Ah well its done and dusted.

Sinfield is a competent players and apparently a nice Bloke and role model.
Pretty sure most people do not think he is the Best Player in the World, (or even a contender) he has been given the Award for reasons known best by the local Judges.

Well done Kev, great for the game in the UK and it gives a boost to the fans.

Indeed Damo and many would say that was down to the fact they enlisted an NRL coach and that most of their players bar 1 ? play in the NRL. Those NZErs playing in SL rarely get picked it seems, at least now.

We haver been given a flogging several times by NZ rcently less so than say v Australia and we have even been beaten when 'Sir Kev'

was playing, often at 6.

However, remember Damowe are not a second rate RL playing nation and we have the best RL player in the world! I know because 'printer' say so

If i was you, I would give up on this username and go back to whichever one you were using before but were to embarrassed to spout this drivel under, before someone bothers to point out the fairly obvious factual errors in this.

A fair few of those world cup winners have played in SL since 2008 including last years NRL Grand finalist Greg Eastwood. Please try and explain how Greg can go from been in a team that beat Cameron Smiths Australia in 2008 to been on the losing side against Cameron Smiths Melbourne Storm?

Is the New Zealand team of 2008 second rate to Queensland and the NRL because the world cup featured a lot of poor sides. Or doesn't this fit into your argument that great players can play in second rate competitions?

Darren Lockyer was awarded man of the match in that 2008 final despite being on the losing team. I guess that is as disputable as Kevin Sinfield being awarded Golden Boot despite being in the losing league...

5 of that NZ world cup winning side played in SL at some stage, Only Tommy Luelaui will likely be looked back on as a success. A player who, incidentally, left the NRL as a nobody and is going back a star. Not to mention that the coach of that success was someone who had never been head coach of an NRL side at that time, and was a complete flop when he was given a chance.

of the 2005 Tri-nations winning NZ side, 13 of 17 played in SL and their coach went on to coach in SL. Including 4 of the back 5, 3 of whom will likely be looked at as disappointments, with only Brent Webb arguably being a success.

Fylde_Warrior's response is going to be very interesting indeed now New Zealand and the super league connections have being bough into the debate.

I am sure you will enlighten me.

I do find the hysteria some users have where they think somebody is somebody else etc. I am me, no other user.

To be honest a visit to a doctor might be more appropriate for you



However, if you want to identify what you consider drivel then do elighten me in between when you hear voices and see imaginary people.

Just to summarise the key points;

For 50 years the Australians have been beating us. Our last great British RL national teams came in 1958-1962. We are a second rate RL nation. The worse thing we ever did was tried to pretend otherwise and even conceal the truth with an international transfer ban. 1982 was a watershed and some good RL people have tried since then to close the gap with some success BUT the gap remains and we remain a second rate RL nation because when we got the opportunity via the SL War / SKT TV / Summer RL we blew investing the money wisely with long term thinking blocked by self interest and short term thinking.

Briefly standards got better thanks largely to the input of Australian coaching ideas and some quality players arriving. Nothing wrong with learning from the best unless you are too proud, stubborn or stupid to do so. The Australian did exactly that in the 1950 /60's. Harry Bath et al saw Australia make remarkable progress through being receptive and open minded. Whatsmore others like Jack Gibson then took it even further by looking at other sports.

Unfortunately, some British people adopt a negative stance when the truth stares them in the face defeat after defeat. Ignorance is bliss for such people Smiley I daresay you would agree

Worse, you get those in a position to bring about change such as some of the media resulting in the farcical decision to declare Kevin Sinfield to be the best RL player in the world in 2012. Only they know their motives but we can speculate.

Just like 1982 we have reached a watershed. Finances have never been tighter, short term self interest has now led to a country still dependent upon overseas players / coaches to advance the sport. Alas the exchange rate, the now widening salary cap differential, rugby union now being the predator rather than the prey to take quality players and outstanding coaches means we have never been shorter in terms of quality and the second rate RL we view is getting worse not better. The gains achieved in closing the gap are likely to be reversed BUT hey we can pretend. Afterall ignorance is bliss just ask Smokey, Printer, Sadler et al. Leeds our best RL team in SL would struggle to win a quarter of their games if they played in the NRL. That is reality. You see many British people are afraid to be exposed to the harsh reality. Far better to pretend in Smokey world where he hears voices and sees imaginary people.



British RL is second rate and KS is not and never has been the best player in the world. Oh less we forget Smokey hears voices and sees other people in his head

Im not going to bother. You are either a troll or an idiot. Either way, its not my job to enlighten you, a simple google search would have set you straight.

Fylde_Warrior, your insistence to dismiss Super League as second rate isn't doing your argument any favors and it's time you moved on from banging that drum. If the competition is so second rate then how come Alfie Langer got chosen to play for Queensland whilst playing in Super League? He was a good player in a second rate (your words - certainly not mine) competition was he?

Andrew Johns was a load of rubbish when he played in Super League



We've already established in this thread that great players can be on the losing side like Cameron Smith was in the second state of origin match last year. Your 'Kevin Sinfield can't be given the golden boot because he plays in super league' argument has too many holes in it.

Jamie Lyon was fantastic in Super League but in the NRL he's done better. Surely no one can recover from the mediocrity that is Super League and then go on to be awarded the Dally M Centre of the Year in both 2010 and 2011?

If Kevin Sinfield played in the NRL then I've no doubt that he'd won more recognition for his talent by now. One of the main points of your arguments is that Kevin Sinfield hasn't and didn't play in the NRL so your building this fantasy where Kevin Sinfield can't be recognized as the best player in the world because of where he plays his rugby. Whilst Kevin Sinfield hasn't played in the NRL, we can make a good guest of how he'd fair out there with other English players who've made a go of it in the NRL and still we'd be in your fantasy world where individuals only perform world class at one end of the globe but not the other



Lets get back to the world club challenge. A relative of mine bumped into some very dejected Manly Sea Eagles players at a Leeds city bar after last years world club challenge and it wasn't having to come over to England they weren't happy about either. Some Australian journalist might want to mock the WCC but it's a very real contest with money to be won and I don't think you'll find any newspaper articles anywhere with players mocking this contest. It's only people like you and journalist with an agenda - well if League Publications have are allowed to have an agenda then surely other journalist are allowed this same right as well?

I've got more arguments up my sleeve but I'd like to see your response to these first!

If Sinfield performed in the NRL during the regular season like he does in SL during the regular season, he'd be dropped from the squad and put on a flight back to dear old blighty!

Damo, SL is a second rate competition. Second rate does not mean fans cannot enjoy it. Far from it. Players can actually gain from playing in a second rate SL for a season or two because they have the time/room to develop different skills and/or allow their bodies to recover from the harder grounds and extra physical damage resulting from more intense sporting contests. Players can benefit as a person by broadening their experience of life and travel to become more rounded individuals.

However, a coach or player that stays in a second rate inferior competition stagnates and declines after 3 seasons here maximum. Change in British RL / SL lags behind the NRL so we are literally waiting for the next NRL playing development to try to immitate.

Ironically, the Australians actually once copied British RL. Typically British RL talks about the great attacking prowess of our legendary 58-62 teams BUT the key to our superiority was very often how defensive techniques. The way we strangled and stifled othert nations defensively. Most people from Britain of your age and younger Damo cannot comprehend or imagine a time when British RL were the defensive masters, the leader in the dark arts of RL. The teacher! not the student of RL.

My argument standfs true and you mistakenly reinforced it Damo. Joey, Alfie were developed by Australian coaching and came here to stroll majestically through our game even at the end of his career for Alfie. Likewise Lyon was already special before he came to Britain.

Our best players walked the walk and went to the NRL where they learned far more. Ellery, Schoey won the GB after doing it in the NRL first. Later Faz and KS were given the award undeservedly. You see therein lies the difference between an objective fan like myself. I supportand watched Faz all his career in RL. Fantastic player, Wigan legend but never the best player in the world. Leeds fans seem to struggle dealing with the idea that you can think KS is a fantastic player, a legend BUT not the best player in the world.

You need to understand sportsmen / women. Nobody takes to the pitch and wants to lose. Every player hates losing. However, if you had asked those Manly players how important the WCC was to them you would have got an answer far less than several other contests on their calendar. You will get some who are PC until the last time they pull on a boots.

So sorry Damo, any British RL player who confines himself to SL cannot claim to be the worlds best player UNTIL SL is the best or as near damn it the best competition in the world. Sadly, British RL / SL is some way from achieving that and recent changing circumstances may make it even less likely.

Kevin Sinfield is a quality player who is more than capable of winning a game all on his own with his kicking which is up there with the best in the World. He is also a superb leader who clearly has the respect of his team mates.

It's pointless trying to compare Super League to the NRL though as there really is only one winner. We can win as many World Club Challenge games as we want, but the NRL is still the toughest league.

This is a fantasy example. Who knows how Kevin Sinfield would fare in the NRL?

Can you come up with any Sinfield-esque players who starred in the team that finished fifth in the NRL last year?

You are a total idiot (in my opinion at least) Sinfield would walk into any NRL side & would be the captain to boot. The NRL is not the be all & end all it just has more cash & a bigger pool of players. If SL was as bad as you think why are Aussie agents scouring the teams for players to sign? Sinfield may be quiet happy to stay at his club & value his life in the UK enough to stay here.

Beverley, decent player that he is, I am pretty confident he would not walk into any NRL side and and I am absolutely positive he would not walk into any side and Captain it.

Sinfield is superior to most NRL players as he is Super League players. As is anybody in, or talked about as serious contenders for the England squad, they would go there and be stars.

Probably not the best, but in the top 10-20% of players.

The best English players are among the best players in the world. Burgess, Ellis, Morley et al all prove it.