Where they? We had a bad year last year but so did most sports. Maybe more to do with the financial state of the supporter base than any mythical mundaness?

Given the evidence that when fans have to pay outside of their season tickets ie CC and playoffs, crowds are well below expectations how do you envisage the selling of shorter season tickets and then asking fans to pay for 7 games at the gate is going to pick up these crowds?

I don't disagree it does give clubs more to play for but I am not sure threatening clubs will financial oblivion is exactly the right way to motivate them!

I can see the trumpeting of the RFL on how SL's crowds are up in this new structure for the 22 games and then conveniantly ignoring the disaster that will befall the crwods of the bottom 4 teams and probably the 6th-8th placed teams who will get tonked by the top 5 teams for the third time in the season.

Agreed.

The new structure is fantastic news for the game.

I expect clubs like Oxford and Bristol will really rev up their enthusiasm, sponsorship backing and player development now there is a clear and pretty short route to the top of the Rugby League pyramid in this country.

The other factor that I haven't heard discussed yet is how points will be awarded in matches at each stage...obviously currently 3 points for win,2 for a draw plus the bonus point rule in the Championships...will these be retained for the first part of the season and then scrapped in the Middle 8? Or will they go back to 2 points for a win etc and no bonus point from the outset? Or will everyone adopt the current Championship system?

Personally I would prefer the last option...don't think that will happen though...bonus point rule might add some more uncertainty to the play-offs..

These are the same clubs before franchising that could get in super league or even stay in super league we just had a yo-yo effect. FANS ASSUMING( Beware of the shadows) that now a silly promotion system is in place clubs will start gaining enough fans to generate enough revenue, Which they never could before franchising, Sponsors miraculously will never be interested and that super league actually has enough money to support 24 teams.

"you can't have it all your own way now" halifax fan, tell me about it the RFL will keep trying to provide to the needy. Its like a Sporting Branch of Labour.

For the "needy" do you mean the bail out clubs like Bradford and Wakefield? You know, those SL clubs that have done all the hard work?

Funny you mention that majority of people agreed that super league needs to go to 12 so there is more money not in effect go to 24.

Bradford average attendance is far greater that any of the championship as well and in the past decade they produced far more academy players than any championship team. So they have far more to offer super league in there current plight than any championship team will over spend to keep up with any super league club.

A couple of years ago Leigh would have beat Catalans but for bent referring and have beaten Salford in the cup . .....

It's a start.

At least all the clubs have something to play for.

Whether these changes will increase attendances initially has to be seen. If interest is increased because of the new structures likewise.

I suppose because of this system there will have to be a playoff system because of not being able to play each team home and away under this proposal, but if it has to be it should be a top 4 round robin, I suggest to ensure that clubs do not aspire to the mediocrity that 8th place is success.

Anyway it's a new situation, let's hope it is the success that everyone who follows this great sport would like.

You've clearly got a thing about socialism haven't you. And equally clearly you obviously know sweet FA about it.

Oh please do explain this.

I wait with bated breath for your explanation at whatever level or section you wish to answer on.

Here are few you could reply to

Financial acumen, Reserve sides, Development, recruitment policy, marketing, to be going on with.

This is a genuine request for an explanation if you believe that the sport is currently all inclusive.

According to Hull Daily Mail. 2 season tickets. One for each group.

Clubs in top SL and in the middle 8 are going to struggle to sell any of the season tickets for that group resulting in loss of income by 2 games that they get now.

Why wouldn't fans pay too see a relegation battle or fight for the title?

You mean with all that Sky money? Well done Bradford for contributing more than Championship clubs.

yeah leigh "had all that sky money" nothing come of it.

Exactly. I'm sure Widnes v Leigh battling it out for P/R will pull CONSIDERABLY more than Widnes v London playing for nothing.

Roll on 2015.

Look at this from a fev , fax , Leigh point of view we have all worked hard over the last few years and seen clubs in super league lie and play in sub standard stadiums and we have had no chance to play at higher level.
We now have a system where if we are good enough we can go up if we are not good enough when we get there we go back down its simple.
It's the fact that the door is no longer closed that makes championship fans happy.

They don't. We have had P+R, we have seen they don't. Clubs get better attendances as a mid table SL side than a relegation threatened one, and they are better attended as a struggling SL side than a successful championship side. That isn't my opinion, it's just what history tells us.

Besides not all 7 games in this 2nd part will be an intense relegation battle, it is likely that a fair amount of them will be dead rubbers between teams unable to be promoted and teams already 'qualified' or where at least one of them falls into that camp

Fev fax and Leigh fans aren't that many people.

The very top will be fine, could probably raise their prices. Leeds Wigan, saints, wire, Hudds will all finish in the 8 and get extra games against each other. It's brilliant for those clubs.

The middle clubs will suffer rom the instability in that, having to sell a half season ticket then suffering the drop in the 2nd part

The bottom clubs are now championship clubs in all but name

Yes it's possible to win four games and miss out on the top 4, if five teams beat teams 6,7,8.

Just using them as possibly the main 3 teams, you then have batley who can beat anyone in the league you have dewsbury with a cracking ground and you have the potential at Many other teams.
To me it isn't about how many fans the teams have now we can't judge till after a couple of seasons..

Batley and dewsbury would destroy the fantastic work they are doing by trying to be SL clubs. They would at max get the levels of attendance used as a stick to beat Salford with this year, an attendance which is entirely unsustainable at pro level.

You are right, we can't judge it now, it's in place, in a few seasons we will see its results. People are saying we will see rises in attendance across the board, new interested benefactors and sponsors funding expansion and benefits throughout the game. I think we will simply entrench a split between the big clubs and everyone else, whilst we will bring up the to championship clubs it will force down the lore SL clubs and grow the big SL clubs and forget about everyone else.

I think people have forgotten that if this is to even come close to working the gap between the top SL clubs and the championships is what needs to be narrowed because if it isn't we only have two possible outcomes a 22game season where 4clubs get hammered and an exciting 7 game play off, or a 22game competitive season and an end of season blow-out.

But it's in place now, I hope to god it does work, I just have no faith whatsoever it will.

So because they will play 7 games outside of the regular SL rounds (3 against SL sides) they are effectively Championship sides for being in the middle 8?

When you add it up, every side that starts in the SL will play at least 26 games against SL opposition.
They will likely play at least 2 games against former SL sides.
And a further 2 games against the other two best Champ sides.

They have more games. Just as many against SL opposition. I don't see the big issue in that they're playing considerably more "lower level" games than they were before. It's comparably very similar. Instead of playing 4 games against 13-14th in SL, they're playing 3 extra games against higher SL opposition, and likely 2 games against the 13-14th clubs mentioned.

What????


The point of my comment is I lost he will to live half way through your explanation... Now add that the game wants me to spend money on supporting this vision... And we might have a problem.

No because their focus changes from long term growth to challenging to short term staying up. Every decision is taken with a risk/reward problem in mind, the risk for a lesser club (relegation) is far higher than the reward(a place in an 8 team comp they are virtually guaranteed not to win from the first kick off). It's a change from now where they are not expecting to get in the 8 but focussing their season on giving themselves the best chance to get in, to having their entire season based around making sure they dont finish bottom four in the 2nd part of the season, the longer the same clubs are involved in those battles the more and more irrelevant the first part of the year becomes

And they may not be playing at a massively lower level than they were before (though it is a lower level) they are playing at a massively lower level than the top 8 which exacerbates the gap