Why would I waste my time paying in excess of £200 for a season ticket product covering regular season fixtures which have no relevance? For a LLS (or Hubcap) which purposely exists in order to represent the irrelevant unimportance of the regular season in comparison to the CC or SL Champions Trophy?

Because I've always been a supporter of international RL over and above the domestic game, in particular SL which has all but done it's best to kill off the international game and which has certainly killed off proper international tours.

I quite agree, of course you shouldn't given thats how you feel. What does puzzle me is you continue to pull to pieces something you have nothing at all positive to say about, why waste your time.

Im not deluded to think SL is as strong/intense as NRL not least beacause they have nearly twice the number of players to choose from. I can accept our competition is far from perfect, though still love it and its far better entertainment value than our so called 'national sport'.

Doesn't really answer the question of why the early stages of the World Cup are any more meaningful than the regular SL rounds though, does it?

And as for SL killing tours (which might be true), surely the NRL is just as culpable, if not more so?

A top SL clubs asks its fans reasons for not renewing their season tickets this season. Over 130 people stated the reason was to do with regular season being meaningless. For me that is staggering and alarm bells should be ringing at Red Hall.

Which club was this? 130 out of how many? and why do you find it staggering?

No one with a brain in their head would say it is meaningless.

It's only meaningless if you think finishing fifth is an easy way to win a title and haven't got over finishing first and not being champions. This nameless club clearly has issues but perhaps its fans should investigate if and why its players can cope with performing properly in the biggest games when the pressure is on, thus displaying the required qualities of champions.

I'm sure that's what all SL ideologists and associated sheep would like critics to do... don't waste time criticising the sport, go away, go do one, shut up, go follow another sport, etc.


I don't care whether SL is as strong/intense as the NRL because it isn't and it never will be. What I can't accept is a sport which purposely renders it's regular season a complete and utter irrelevance by it's insistence on rewarding mediocrity. Top 8 play-off system in SL?

There aren't 8 half decent teams in SL! No wonder it's lacking in quality, intensity and entertainment value these days.

I wasn't aware the World Cup had a regular season - meaningful or otherwise.


I wasn't aware the NRL switched the timing of their domestic season which rendered proper international tours an impossibility and killed them off. I'm pretty sure it was SL and the switch to summer which did that.

What 'SL ideologist' would say 'I can accept that SL is far from perfect'?! I think you've not been capable of reading what I put, hence you going off on one.

In the interest of balance, I agree that the play off system needs changing to benefit the game.

Is this the same survey that found a further 8179 wouldn't renew until the team with the best flags were crowned champions?

Yet even though we have teams 'just making up the numbers' in the playoffs the winning margins between SL and NRL come playoffs game aren't a huge difference.

All playoff games since 2009
SL = 17.05 pts
NRL = 15.08 pts

Qualifying Semi Finals and Grand Finals since 2009
SL = 10.33
NRL = 16.16 .............oops!



1st Round Regular Season NRL winning margins since 2009
10.71

I wish NRL teams would stop short changing their fans by not treating the final 2 games of the playoffs with such medicore performances and apathy compared to the 1st Round games.......tut tut

There are only about 6 capable teams, there are 8 play-off spots, points aren't as valuable to the better teams as they once were. Many weekly rounds lack the intensity than they used to. Personally i no longer attend Warrington games (despite this being the best warrington team i've ever seen) and this year i've not bothered to re-new Sky sports. I will go and watch a few games at the pub and i look forward to the challenge cup and the play-offs.

LLS should be scrapped. It was an afterthought anyway.

As long as the GF exists, it can't. Yes, we had the premiership, but it was never promoted as 'the big one'. Nobody's going to downgrade the GF, so the LLS will always be seen (because it is!) as the qualifier for that.

What would really work though, IMO, is the following. Top 4 play, following season, in a 'Champions League' vs top 4 NRL. Group matches are spread nicely throughout the season to give us big 'international' nights which keep mainstream media interest up throughout the year - not just for a week or two each season.

Travel is NOT totally impractical - because each club can play its two overseas away games in one (say 10 day) trip - which is also great for those fans fortunate enough to be able to travel - they get two games 'on tour'. They could even put the fans and the club on the same aeroplane and in the same hotels as a big charter package, to pay for everything.

The relation to the original question is: 'seeding'. Winner in both NRL and SL gets clubs 3 and 4 from the other competition. ( Oops, edit - that doesn't quite work, 2 and 4 does though )

This would be transformational for SL - we need season-long media interest - and this would do it. Season-long interest is vital for good relationships with sponsors, and to encourage media outlets to keep a 'rugby league desk' open. WCC is interesting for what it is, but its not enough.

Alas... 'tis but a dream - can't see how the NRL would be motivated right now to take part. Still, money talks, if someone can convince them it'll pay, you never know.

Yes, yes, lots of details to sort out about 'too many games', what if?', etc, etc. but nothing that can't be sorted out for the good of the game.

Ah, dreams.

As long as the Grand Final can be potentially won by a team who finish 8th, there will be no interest in the LLS whatsoever. The only way to create interest in the LLS is for there to be a re-structure of the play off system with the winner of the LLS going straight through to the Grand Final.

I'm increasingly in this camp. Gone from a dedicated season ticket holder to choosing my games. I keep Sky Sports simply because even the poorest SL game is better than weekend television, but I find the regular season increasingly uninteresting.

Saints got hammered unexpectedly on Friday. Back in the day we'd have been saying 'they can't lose many more and their points difference is way behind'. Every game suddenly meant a little bit more and games against the league leaders/challengers were huge. Friday's result was a surprise but means very little in the grand scheme of things.

The bigger clubs have the strength in depth and quality to make the play-offs, almost guaranteed. Unless (like Wigan last year) the LLS is a stated goal, the league campaign just doesn't really matter. The rest just hope to make the 8, where they'll fall at the 1st or 2nd hurdle. The same teams get to the GF every year and the entire season has been effectively reduced to a cup competition over a few weeks.

Unfortunately I see no way back. Despite poor play-off attendances, the GF is too big and Sky love it. Putting the league winners straight through would mean a few weeks losing match fitness unless they play friendlies. The Premiership was a growing tournament but not on the scale of the GF. It may not be an epidemic yet but I'm seeing and hearing increasing numbers of disillusioned RL fans and someone should take note.

I blame Leeds.

Although many people have questioned the validity of the play-off system with Leeds having won the GF from 5th, imagine what would happen if one of the "minnows" actually won from 8th.
OK, before folk pounce and say it will never happen, it wasnt so long ago that winning from 5th was considered as nigh on impossible.
The LLS is a sympathy award and it always will be while we have play offs, followed by a Grand Final.

What happened to going to the match purely to watch and support your team? I didn't realise following sport was all about picking meaningful games to go to and chasing glory.

Lovely sentiment, and if everyone thought like you the game would be in fine fettle. But they don't. Never have done, never will do. Structuring and marketing the game has to be built around what people are *really* like, not what we'd like like them ( and ourselves ) to be. I don't get to every game, but I'm much more likely to go and watch my team (Wigan) play Leeds, Warrington or Saints, than Wakefield. Bad fan? Fair enough, but there's 1000s more like me, and that, if you're running a sport, is what you've got to deal with.

Correct

Imagine how much interest you would have with the prospect of watching your team face Hemel , Gloucester , Oxford , Gateshead , South Wales or the Skolars next season ?

This is part of the reason we are seeing the DR fiasco at the moment

Would Wigan v Wakefield be a more attractive game if the 2 points were absolutely vital to potentially winning the Championship instead of just being an afterthought?

This Fridays game between Wigan v Wire is really irrelevant in terms of the trophies at the end of the season. Would it be if the title was given to the team finishing top? Think about it.

With the WCC supposedly going to three clubs from hemisphere then that's nine additional game for SKY to cover.
There is scope therefore to reduce the number of games in the season.

1, Switch "Magic" from SL to the C Cup last 16, thus making SL a 26 game League.
2, Award the winner of the LLS with a financial reward and trophy for the club and medals for the players.
3, Reduce the play offs to the top three or four. Top three being L Leaders straight to the GF, teams 2 & 3 play off for the GF.
The top four would be 1 v 4, 2 v 3 with the winners to the GF.
4, Keep the GF with the greater financial reward for the club and gold rings for the players.
5, The top three clubs in SL are those who qualify for the WCC.

All change/improvement is dependent on SKY agreeing to go with it and maintaining their number of televised games contracted to. Hence this would only take place once the WCC went to three clubs.

The play-offs don't seem to affect the intensity of the regular NRL season. The way to improve the SL competition is to try and improve the all-round quality of the teams playing in it.