I don't know what a lot of you were expecting, but England have clearly upgraded in the fullback position in 2010.

Correct they have, in terms of missed tackles and errors he's upgraded these stats tenfold. Just a shame he's upgraded them the wrong way

I think the real problem England face is that their best halves - Tomkins and Eastmond - play at their best at FB and Centre. If you had your first choice squad available I would think that Tompkins would replace Widdop, but who would be in the halves? If you go with your best halfback pairing, then you have to go with Widdop.
As a neutral I don't think Widdop was any worse than any of the other players you had in the squad, sure he needs to make a 10% improvement if you want to win an international, but then again so does the rest of your squad.
(But that's not that bad, all the French players need to improve by 50% to be competitive)

Because an awful lot of our squad would be reserve graders over there.

He offers nothing going forward, we're looking to win games not to lose by the lowest amount. Briscoe is an average SL full back, he's no where near international standard.. and I really like the guy.

If he didn't get injured, Richard Owen would have been the fullback imo.

Doesn't Cudjoe play fullback too? Apart from 1 drop Widdop didn't look that bad today anyway, certainly an improvement over Briscoe, Atkins was the biggest joke out there today.

Sorry but for me widdop was b.poor today as was atkins and ellis. We need more forward power next game, but with mcnamara as coach I don't expect anything more than that showing today!

Tomkins should be the England fullback. But the fact that Eastmond, Pryce, McGuire and Sinfield are all injured determines that he needs to be in the halves.

Agree with you about J Tomkins. Been dire this week and last. Drop him and pick Harrison.

Bring in Clubby. Let the big boy surprise a few people.

Tell you what Joel must really have rubbed some opposition fans up the wrong way this year especially a few bitter Saints fans looking at some of this posts.

Joel Tomkins - Ben Westwood

Hit ups 3 (22m) - 5 (34m)
Average 7.3 - 6.8
Offloads 1 - 1
Tackles 15 -17
Missed tackles 0 - 1
Errors 0 - 0
Penaltys conceded 0 - 1

Considering Joel wasnt on the field nearly aslong as Westwood who seems to be getting talked up on here as one of the only players to show up i think Joel's stats and performance stands up quite well tbf. Im not trying to put Westwood down as i thought he played well im just using him as an example. Can someone give me a logical explaination on why J.Tomkins is getting dogged ? Or is it a simple case that he ruffled a few two many feathers this year on his way to getting his winners medal.

I'd like to ask people what Joel did wrong?

Got about 30 mins. was strong in D and had a massive hand in our second try.

Surprise people by how shocking he is at tackling ? Worst in superleague aint he ?

I was waiting for a Wiganer to come up with this. It has nothing to do with playing for Wigan what so ever, i just didn't notice him do anything. The stats do look fine, but stats don't always tell the full story but frm what i watched, he didn't have any impact and to be honest, i didn't notice him on the field. Also, Tomkins came on when we were starting to play reasonably well, so we were on the front foot for a majority of when he was on the field.

Tomkins has shown this season he is a very good player with a lot of potential, first half of the season especially. However, i wasn't impressed with him today, and it has nothing to do with being bitter, or being a Saints fan.

I hardly noticed him to be honest and he didn't have any impact, IMO. If i'm honest, i haven't being very impressed with him for the second half of the season, the first half of the season he showed a great amount of promise though and obviously has plenty of potential but i wasn't impressed with him.

He tackled anything that came near him, and his quick hands allowed the move for the 2nd try to happen.

Just because he wasn't busting through tackles doesn't mean he wasn't there, didn't really see anyone else doing that either.

But Macnamara hasn't got the stones to do it.

Where have you got those stats from? Rooster Boosters link on another thread has these

15. Joel Tomkins 8 5 (26m)
16. Ben Westwood 12 8 (55m)

With first column receives and the second runs. For me it comes down to a straight choice between the two, going with one prop on the bench is suicide against these teams IMO.

Got them from the same link you just click on run after you select player stats.

I'd go with O'loughlin at 6 with Burgess 13, Westwood starting in the SR and Joel on Bench but getting on alot earlier to show what a top player he is. Been impressed with Westwood he seems to suit the international stage.

Quote ="DP_wwrlfc"Got them from the same link you just click on run after you select player stats. I'd go with O'loughlin at 6 with Burgess 13, Westwood starting in the SR and Joel on Bench but getting on alot earlier to show what a top player he is. Been impressed with Westwood he seems to suit the international stage.'" Nah mate it's not the same as this one live.nrlstats.com/matches/nrl/match3976.html

Quote ="DP_wwrlfc"Got them from the same link you just click on run after you select player stats. I'd go with O'loughlin at 6 with Burgess 13, Westwood starting in the SR and Joel on Bench but getting on alot earlier to show what a top player he is. Been impressed with Westwood he seems to suit the international stage.'" Nah mate it's not the same as this one live.nrlstats.com/matches/nrl/match3976.html

Quote ="inside_man"Nah mate it's not the same as this one live.nrlstats.com/matches/nrl/match3976.html'" It is mate click on player stats and then runs. Then look at the Hit-ups column that i quote. I picked out them as the impression i got was the general feeling from most posters was that Westwood drove the ball well whereas Tomkins didnt make an impressive with his.

Quote ="inside_man"Nah mate it's not the same as this one live.nrlstats.com/matches/nrl/match3976.html'" It is mate click on player stats and then runs. Then look at the Hit-ups column that i quote. I picked out them as the impression i got was the general feeling from most posters was that Westwood drove the ball well whereas Tomkins didnt make an impressive with his.

You've ignored all the other runs that Westwood did to suit your argument then?



Granted I think that Westwood was on the pitch longer, but in reality neither impressed a great deal and it's an either or decision for me. Westwood covers the props better, Tomkins the backs.

I think J. Tomkins is getting some harsh criticism on here, saw him put in one particularly strong run in the second half. in the whole Westwood/J. Tomikns debate, and I'm trying to forget how much I hate the Wolves, you could never criticise Westwood for effort, but Tomkins does seem to have a touch more class and both have all the physical attributes.

When you look at the problems through out the side, neither Tomkins or Westwood were the big issue. England's big issue is their need to re-group mentally. 1st half aside, they weren't that bad. If Brown's try had stood, like it would have if a NZ player had scored an identical try, we could have gone on to win the game.

He had to cover his position and the wing last season. Surrounded by better players he'll dominate.

Absolute rubbish.

As a wire fan I cringed at Atkins performance yesterday, but Widdop was actually worse when he went to centre.