That's what I said

I'd be happy with an end of season knock out featuring the current boundaries that allows West Yorkshire to play against Cumbria and Lancashire and Merseyside or whatever. Teams should be picked on birthplace rather than where you first played and certainly no Irish Grandparents dog's best friend's cat's mother in laws rule to be allowed.

A little unfair seeing how the Merseyside representative team just be St Helens minus all their overseas and non-St Helens born players.

East meets West

The key to this is the RFLs stance on it being an England trial and that players who pull out from the game can't play for their clubs in the next round.

Sell! Sell! Sell! the idea to the fans with some smack talking, get players to talk about where they came from and which amateur clubs they started at. Give the freaking tickets away dirt cheap to ensure a big crowd and build the concept over a few years instead of the passing commitment that we usualy get.

This idea won't go away for a good reason, theres something in it but we just need to nail it down and make it work!

Still doesn't make it true though : State of Origin was pretty much an instant success and has never looked back.

One big reason was that, in the old NSW v Queensland pre-Origin games, NSW could call on all the Sydney players, even those born in Queensland. This meant that the contests were becoming increasingly one-sided and losing their appeal. Suddenly when Origin arrived, all the Queenslanders who had followed the money to Sydney could play for their home state again and give the cockroaches a good walloping.

Second big reason was that since the mid 1970s, GB has rarely been able to challenge Australia's international dominance and New Zealand hardly more often. So State of Origin increasingly (and probably rightly) became regarded as the pinnacle of RL competitions world-wide.

Compare that to our situation and we have neither of those factors. The old county championship died out through lack of interest and the Wars of the Roses revival was barely any better - especially since only one side gave any impression of really caring about the outcome.

Sorry but I don't have the answer, but I don't think Lancs v Yorks or East v West or any such variation will do the trick since not enough people actually associate with either of the sides (especially on the west of the Pennines).

Sorry....wrong..The players east of the pennines, Yorkshire, were far, far superior to those from West of the Pennines, Lankashire. That's why Yorkshire were victorious...Ok?
Ok, lets run with this

Personally I'm not that bothered about identification with the teams, I just want to see the best that RL players in this country can play. I'm sure I'd pick a team after time to support (it makes it a little bit better) but for all I care they could call the teams Reds and Blues and flip a coin to see which players are eligible for both sides.

(Although I will add that if there is something, anything to get up for - East/West Lancs/Yorks that would be preferable)

For me its got to be a three match series North (SL players born in Northern England) v South (SL players not born in NE e.g. Pat Richards etc) played at Venues in either the East or West Midlands on the same day as the Origin Series.

I would keep the Magic Weekend but have it either as the first or last game of the weekly rounds, venue & country to suit the time of year.

It could work, I would want East V West so not alienate anyone, unless we had it three ways Lanc's York's & the rest. All should be England/Wales/GB qualified. A good cash reward for selection (not in the salary cap) & make it a condition that to play international you must play in the seires also make it plain that this is the the selection for any international team. Also as posted if you pull out of any game you will not be able to play for your club that week unless the RFL doctor verifys the injury. If you could get a sponsor by all means give season ticket holders a free game but I would charge, If fans wont pay they dont deserve any consideration,

This idea will never EVER work so I really don't understand why we are debating it.

It will NEVER happen.

EVER.

Lets draw a line under it and move on


Here, I'll draw one ok??



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Cos Yorkshire v Lancs would really set the fans on fire, I can see Catalans Dragons, Gateshead, Toulouse, Whitehaven, Barrow, Workington, London Skolars, Crusaders and Quins RL fans queing up all night long for tickets.

When the game would be Yorkshire vs the Rest and the tickets are included in the purchase of your season ticket then why would you not want to see the best 34 European players play against each other.

The 2010 All Stars match down under drew 27,000 paying spectators. If we can't get people to go along to fill a 40,000 plus seater stadium when they get it included with any rugby league season ticket then rugby league is too snobbish for me.

There would be about 2,500 at any such fixture. Whichever way you dressed it up.

I suggest A-M vs N-Z. It would be almost as meaningful.

You can't turn a pig in a poke into quality just by sticking on the word "origin" to some artificial fixture, on the spurious basis that "Origin" means something elsewhere.

James McManus played for the NSW Country Origin team, and then the NSW State of Origin team, on the basis of playing for Newcastle. He was born in Scotland, and played his junior RL in the Northern Territory.

The primary aim of the Roses series is to prepare English players for England selection by pooling the best players together in the one game. Super League does not offer that more intense level of competition, can not offer it, will never offer it, should not be expected to. Neither does the NRL.

The 2001-2003 Roses series attracted [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_League_War_of_the_Rosesrespectable crowds[/url given the games were held on a Tuesday or Wednesday night. 10,253 to 8,258. These crowds were still higher than the France tests of the last three years, and just under the 2007 test crowd, all held on a weekend. They are higher than many SL games. If Roses can attract at least 8-10K, yet helps England compete strongly against Australia and NZ, then it has done its job. It is the England team that should be expected to attracted a large amount of interest.

In Australia, the NRL is not expected to prepare players for test level. City/Country and State of origin is. This is why Manly CEO [url=http://forum.titans.com.au/showthread.php?t=10235&page=8Graham Lowe pushed for a Kiwi Roots Origin series[/url when he was at the NZRL a few years back.

scrap the magic weekend and have a 2 game england v the other nationalities series...with the winner being decide on a aggregate score.....that is the ONLY series that will prepare the england team to go up against the aussies & kiwis....smashing a half strength french team does nothing...


france can play a england 'A' mid season and the full england side at the end of the season...

And yet, somehow, NZ managed to produce the world's best RL team without any kind of rep fixtures. Football, cricket and rugby union also seem to manage to run international teams without dividing the country into two arbitrary pieces.

The idea that a Lancashire/Yorkshire match is going to be more intense than a normal SL club game is just comedy.

Scrap the magic weekend and have a 4 team series of games involving Yorkshire Lancashire, Cumbria and "Other players" ie London/Wrexham ( RL Barbarians?? )

The Kiwis managed to win two one-off games in 2006 and 2008. Their team has otherwise been beaten consistently by Australia in one-off tests, test series and tournaments for decades. As have England/GB. Graham Lowe and others in NZRL obviously agreed with the need for a level above the NRL.



When it comes to the three nations of England, Australia and NZ, consider the following.
Firstly, when it comes to football, the English football structure does not facilitate success in the national team - it has not won a major international tournament in some time. Nor could one use the A League.

Secondly, the format of cricket is totally different, especially in Australia/NZ, where international players are barely involved in state/provincial cricket. Comparison cannot be made.

Thirdly, when it comes to Rugby Union, England has also underperformed consistently, and the clubs/country have been involved in conflict over control of the elite players and the game for most of the professional era.



The games of 2001 to 2002 already proved to be a series of intense, worthwhile fixtures. 2003 ended up being one-sided, which is no different to State of Origin, or to many NRL fixtures and countless Super League fixtures. Notably in 2002, when the RFL ran a two match Roses series, GB won the test series against a good Kiwi team (as opposed to the poor Kiwi team they defeated in 2007). GB also won the first Ashes test in 2001.

Super League has seemingly fallen in intensity with expansion to 14 teams. This year, 58 of 160 games, or over 36%, have been won with a margin of 20 points or more. 8 games have been hidings of 50 points or more, culminating in the Wigan's 58 nil defeat of Catalans, Warrington's 58 nil defeat of Quins, Saints defeated Hull KR twice by 54 and 56 points. 10 margins in the 40s, 13 margins in the 30s.

Meanwhile, in 2001 to 2003, there was one large defeat in the Roses series, out of 4 games. 25% of those games.

Excellent post.

County games are the way ahead.

As long as they were scheduled sensibly and taken seriously by the clubs then I don't see why a Lancashire-Yorkshire game couldn't achieve 15,000+ crowds sooner rather than later.

The only other alternative would be a mid-season England-Wales international alongside playing the Frogs.

Call it the Reds vs the Whites, like the Blues and the Maroons. Get all fans involved, else look at getting the Magic weekend moved and free on your season ticket to ensure a full stadium. At least then you are promoting the game to the British public instead of defending the sp crowds at the big stadia.

Leave English players to get better on their own, they may win tests against the Kiwis but it will take at least another generation to beat the Aussies in a test series with our current game-plan (I'm not seeing a logical one beyond me promoting what the coaches have been calling for)

The cold hard facts are that Rugby League in the UK is neither strong enough or well supported enough to successfully have any 'Origin' type competition.

It is simply not popular enough.

Sorry... but its true.

And this was reflected in the performance of the GB team in those years?

Close result does not equal intense. I'd describe those games as glorified friendlies/ exhibition games, with all players involved doing their best not to get injured and with one eye on the clock. That's the most you could hope for from such games.

I have an idea, how about a hog-roast where you're the guest speaker, and then we have a showing of Gareth Thomas: The Movie.