He's not addressing any point , he's just pointing out you're a =#FF0000Let's leave the childish insults to the playground please. Karen.

One thing that has recently come to the fore is Unions current war on high tackles and concussion , if RL doesn't address these same issues we will see less youngsters playing and ultimately a fall in standards

As much as we see the ' Biff ' and ' big hits ' as part of the game these things will turn off parents from letting their kids play the game

RL is THE toughest team sport you can play , however in our H and S concious world we must remove some of the less attractive parts of the game

I think perhaps folk living in the heartlands underestimate the extent of ignorance of league in most of the country. When people find out I'm a league fan, they almost inevitably start banging on about Bath or the 6N. Even people who regard themselves as sports fans often don't understand that they are two different sports. I firmly believe that the lack of league on free to air TV has a lot to do with that. You can see cricket heading the same way. When I was a kid, Ashes Tests were massive events the whole country talked about. Nobody talks about them now (relatively speaking).
As mentioned upthread,, crowds at most RU club matches are unexceptional, to say the least. But RU has marketed itself well to attract the attention (and money) of casual fans, most of whom know little of the laws of the game. And it's undeniable that being the Establishment game has got a lot to do with it. That, and the lack of international fixtures. It doesn't matter too much if England RU get tanked by the All Blacks, cos fans can see them beating plenty of other nations. Especially the Welsh, cos wins against them always go down well with the Little Englanders.

I am aware of the origins of RL, I suppose what I want to know is why Local Authority Schools during the 60s and 70s didn't allow League to be played in the heartland of the game ( northwest in my case ).

By unexceptional do you mean an average attendance in the U.K. That is greater than super league by 35%?

Regards

King James

Yes that's what he meant , unexceptional , given all the advantages they historically have their attendances are unexceptional

My lad played Union as a junior for around 10 years and the distance they had to travel to get a game was an indication of just how sp Union is in the area, although as you say, there are some decent clubs, with teams playing through the age groups.
However, League has the same and there are far more clubs playing league in this area.
Thankfully he is now playing League at Uni and enjoying playing far more than he enjoyed Union.

As someone who played across the back line in Union, he tells me that involvement if far more intense and enjoyment levels are far greater.

Nobody can deny that nationally, Union is the "bigger" game and of course, it's also played across Scotland and Wales and as League will never be as popular Nationally.
However, in the Heartlands, it's still more popular than Union.

We have to remember that, but, for the arrogant and demeaning attitudes in Union at the end of the 19th Century, League would not exist, so for that, we should be grateful.

There are 17 union leagues in the north west compared to, what, 5 in league? My local union club has acually linked up with my local league club and some union players now play for them in the offseason and vice versa and both sets of players enjoy playing the other code. But yes, I can see your sons point as a backrower from the union side, played centre for the league side and couldnt believe how tired he was after 60 minutes!

Regards

King James

It was similar in Hull in the 70's RL was very strong at Junior High level but none existent in High School. The only alternative to football was yawnion which was deservedly unpopular so that always struggled for numbers, so usually neither ended up being played. I don't think the local authority banned RL but on the other hand they didn't direct the sports teachers to provide what the pupils wanted so good old yawnion prejudice was allowed to run rampant. New Zealand is the only country in the world where RU is genuinely popular and earns its widespread coverage. In Aus yawnion is thankfully slipping to a distant 4th in terms of interest in the football codes but even so gets inflated coverage and sponsorship in proportion to its numbers thanks to their old boy private school network.

It is tough times for RL here but I would like the governing body to make a much stronger effort to promote the game in schools. It has to be done centrally as I'm not sure that you can just rely on the clubs as they have understandably slightly different aims and there are opportunities for the more unscrupulous to ride on the effort of others.

The real danger to RL would be if yawnion ever became entertaining - fortunately tedious penalty kicking competitions remain the norm in the UK.

It's pointless comparing the 2 codes in terms of popularity. I still can't work out how people can prefer that code to ours but given the resources and the fact that they have all the household names now, I can see why it has become more registered in the nation psyche.

I've just come to accept that RL entertains me beyond any other sport and other people like watching golf on the TV. Puzzling, but just have to accept it and move on. I do try and recruit people for League though and do people's heads in a bit at work by mentioning whats going on in RL when we are having a footy conversation.

How do you define toughest? Im sure the Canadians would argue Ice hockey is 'tough' whatever that means.

Do mothers want there kids to play tough sports, with fights, head shots,..........?

Seriously ? , with the amount of padding they wear they struggle to lift their arms up to head hight , it takes a couple of minutes for them to take off their gloves and helmets

As for tough , from a physical contact point of view , simple as , it is a basic part of the game , every set will contain 5 actual impacts at the very least , what we must make every effort to achieve is that those impacts be it in junior,senior amateur or proffessional are restricted to the body as per the rules , no bouncing off the shoulder , no late shots and also no ducking under tackles ( I'm talking to you here Rob )

Nailed it an all points.

The International game is a big draw to the passing punter. Love it or hate it (personally I love it), the 6 nations annually raises union to a level that League can't get to in terms of TV coverage, and national interest. If League catches on within the USA and Canada over the next 10 years, then I guess there could be potential for a Northern Hemisphere version to try and rival that. But even if it does, it still needs to overcome a biased southern based media.

Only a 'girly' softies sport would ban shoulder barges and punching. I dread to think what parents would think if you then armed the players with sticks and put hard protection around the side to shoulder barge players into, and then throw a rock hard object onto the ground to smash round.

But I understand League is the toughest team sport.

don't there is a magic formula but some of the component parts are

Union has always valued internationals and representative rugby over club rugby...
Union saturation around London as the only form of 'rugby' there at all until the 1980s
Union saturation across all 'establishment' vehicles... until 1995
League has the biggest 'working class' chip on its shoulder I have ever seen
We in league are grudgingly welcoming of new incumbents to the game AND are quick to attack and criticise
The growth of the Union World cup concept
The majority of people in the sporting world still have no idea there are two sports with the same name
Former players from Union tend to sound educated and literate... many former league players come across less so...
leagues ability to interpret a full glass as half full... a half full glass as half empty and a half empty glass as spilled with broken splinters of glass everywhere and the whole world pointing and laughing!

lets stop comparing and enjoy what we have.

Surely the reason Union is 'more popular' is simply because when RL was formed it was as a pro league based on a very small geographical area in a place where union already had a significant amateur set up. So RL was basically a pro sport in Lancs/Yorks, RU is a national sport played also in Lancs/Yorks at an amateur and school level. RL was never going to catch up with that head start when it never really tried to in it's early years. RU is still big in Lancs/Yorks at every level but pro. Which is why I laugh when my southern mates refer to RL as 'you' and RU as 'us' on a north/south basis when in reality RU is a truly national game and popular in the north of England AND everywhere else. The popularity of sports on a national basis has almost nothing to do with it's entertainment value no matter what people think.

It's just a quirk of history and no amount of 'marketing' or skilful 'administration' can change the mindset of a nation, football codes strength in the market places was formed a LONG time ago .

I've worked in my current job for nearly 10 years and, although everyone knows I'm a Salford fan, I still have large numbers assuming all rugby is the same. I do not work in Bath or Leicester but Stockport.
Our marketing hereabouts is poor. There was a groundswell of dislike to Sale when they were up the road and we ignored it. I'm waiting for remarks about the 6 nations.

If we take the coming internationals and compare them to our 4 nations of only a few months ago; for me that was a huge own goal. Even committed RU fans with a interst in RL wouldn't watch s they saw Australia so dominant and the other three as "making up the numbers". Why watch a 3rd rate team take on a team who will not break sweat in beating them?

A few other points:
"what I want to know is why Local Authority Schools during the 60s and 70s didn't allow League to be played in the heartland of the game ( northwest in my case )": certainly not Oldham nor Salford (from personal experience) as the game was well played. I remember in the early 80's Rochdale, Bury and Stockport schools playing ... I was a teacher and had RL teams. One answer is that it's easier to set up a football (soccer) team: so much so that even I dabbled.

" I would like the governing body to make a much stronger effort to promote the game in schools. It has to be done centrally" .. English Schools town teams... remember them? They were part of the RL, not BARLA or local leagues.

"However, in the Heartlands, it's still more popular than Union." For now but the England tactical game that [size=85(bored me)[/size won them so many competitions is being replaced with a more open Australian/French type game which does have TV audiences watching.

We had a opening in the late '80s but did not use it. Oh well, there's alays crown green ... oh here we go again.

You have hit the nail on the head.

Well if you don't have anybody capable of teaching RL in schools,simply because the teachers academic value is one of Union,how do you actually push RL in schools these days?

Are we to say that the only sport a Games Teacher knows is Union? Possibly Lacrosse also..

Apart from Mr Larder, from memory, all the teachers in Oldham in the late 70's/80's were union players or trained(or interested football coaches) but most ran very capable RL teams.

We forget that Rugby league, though a passion to many on here, is one of a large set of choices of entertainment. It's a crowded market out there and we still display the image of the handcart selling hotdogs whilst football and Union are now the designer clothing booths. It's not easy to shake the image off but it can be done... football's image in the early 80's stank and look at it now.

Good point about teachers I went to an RU school in Salford in the 70's and had the 'pleasure' of being reffed by the one eyed Fran Cotton an RU star who's da played RL I think was a teacher or coach at Leigh GS? Your own Keith Fielding was a teacher at Marple High School as well as being a Superstar

Football had an image problem, but it was still the dominant sport at both professional and amateur levels.

Part of RU's recent success has been sustained change to make it more attractive to spectators, it could probably do more (and probably will as there are still dead weight aspects from the amateur era), it just has to slowly win over the purists who are nostalgic for the days of seriously unfit players rolling around in mud with a try being scored once every other week. As they die out they'll be able to cut more of that dead weight out. With RL a lot of that ground was covered a long time ago and now it's just tinkering, occasionally it works like the 40/20, other times it is so so, like changing replacement rules or kick restarts or when the ball is classed dead in goal. We're not looking at some parts of RL that have become frustrating like the way that the interpretation of the forward pass favours generic flat attack and every other pass is borderline forward, the interpretation of the knock on that has become a de-facto fumble rule so rather than a player having to recover the ball from behind them when they knock it [ibackwards[/i, which might create a bit of excitement, a knock forward is given and the players instinct is to make the ball dead as quickly as possible. Scrums are a farce, I'd personally like to see a return to RL style contested scrums (which are not the same as the RU form which have had their own problems), but the current approach simply bunches together 12 random players for thirty seconds.

Interesting answers, but to have my two pence worth. Although born & brought up 8 miles from Hull I never had the chance to play league at school while my cousins played League in primary school. I had only soccer. Up till WW2 Beverley had a league club & very successful at amateur level. Once at secondary (1960) I was introduced to Union & played until mid 20,s (when banned for training with a Pro League club) It is interesting to note that Beverley did not have a Union side until the late 1950’s & that was originally my schools old boys. Also worth remembering that the great expansion of Union happened also in the late 1950’s early 1960,s. The reason the post war boom in secondary education when thousands of new teachers were trained at new teacher training collages that based their training & ethos on public schooling traditions. That is what led to Union getting its foot in state schools & the new collages across great swathes of the UK. Union until 1995 was more about participating than watching. I played county level when maybe only a couple of hundred would be there.
Even playing international in the Far East we only got a couple of thousand. It has been the international game with a fixed position in the social calendar that has pushed Union onwards & they have reaped the rewards of TV cash & having built up huge cash reserves from gate money during the pre professional era. As a League fan I can only wish our sport would work for the game & not club loyalties. The one chance we have I think is that Union is becoming to specialised & the average guy is finding that unless they are giants or 20 stone monsters they can't play some positions. At the lower levels League is easier to learn & play. The armed forces are finding that League is a lot better for smaller units as finding enough players of the right build to play some positions is difficult. I also think a lot prefer our game once they have a go & that is the key to getting the word out.

I got an email in my inbox today asking if I was interested in England v France Six Nations ticket at £250 (+VAT!) a pop.

Hey, maybe it's like diamonds and mink coats: the more you keep the price artificially high, the more you please the punters cos they don't want it to be cheap and accessible to every Tom, Dick, and Harry.




I feel much as Nye Bevan did about Tories.