The race for oblivion is probably the most hottly contested competition in Super League at the moment, which is a sad state of affairs.

[uCrusaders[/u - After a promising start have nose dived crowd wise and have serious questions over their financial stability given the off field goings on there.

[uSalford[/u - With a new stadium they would be like a completely new franchise. Salford as they are now have about 1,500 supporters, a poor side, a poor youth production line and the worst facilities in SL. It's like their very existence has been geared around losing this fight. The new stadium [icould[/i solve their problems for them. Personally I'd like to see a new identity for them, something fresh and new. 'Trafford RL' sponsored by the Trafford Centre perhaps?

[uCastleford[/u - Inadequate facilities that will apparently be replaced with a new stadium. Political interference from their cousins could scupper their hopes. Crowds are reasonable and perhaps exceptional given the tin pot nature of Castleford the place. Attenandances are roughly 20% of the population aren't they? Doesn't scream potential to me, but they deserve their place if they can get a new stadium, but only if they can.

[uWakefield[/u - An utterly useless club at present. A new stadium could improve things but they aren't going to get one given the recent decision. They for me have got to be forerunners for imposed demotion.

[uHarlequins[/u - Another club who's performance on and off the field begs the question of whether they want a licence for Super League. They are one club in this list of undesirables that have made strides off the field. They have invested heavily in their youth setup and are now producing more first team players from their academy than Wigan. 10 years ago Wigan probably had 4 overseas players and Quins 10, now it's the opposite. BUT that improvement hasn't been matched by improvements to their matchday experience, their marketing and ultimately their attendances. I can't see how they are a long term option for SL as without an incredibly wealthy and generous benefactor they surely won't last long. I'd love to see their accounts, they must be losing hundreds of thousands per season.

[uCatalans[/u - Strong for a franchise operation in terms of attendances and community involvement but again their finances must be questionable. There were rumours of severe financial difficulties earlier this year and their Chairman has repeatedly threatened to walk away from the idea. Their disappearance would be an utter disaster for SL and make it a much more boring place.

For me one club that has gone from certain outs to certainties to stay are the Giants. They've improved their youth system, they've improved their first team, they've improved their crowds. Why can't the other sides listed above (Bar Catalans) at least try?

The Cas and Wakey merger has been muted by their council I believe. Common sense to me if they can come up with a name for it that means something to the people of that area.

My list for the chop:

1 - Wakey
2 - Salford
3 - Quins
4 - Crusaders
5 - Cas
6 - Catalans

Can the Wakefield fans shut the door on the way out please? We have plenty to discuss.

But it also raises the spectre of bringing up a side that deserves their place no more than those leaving. Toulouse whilst a positive for the competition would be fragile and Widnes would run mid/bottom of the table on the same 5/6k crowds and given their location and financial history I don't see any reason at all for them to be brought in.

Nail on head.

The RFL should scrap this pantomime so that fans can focus on the game in their respective competitions. Close the SL plughole and spin shut the Championship submarine hatch. If the RFL then want to invite/kick out a club in future, let them do it behind closed doors and by committee, with short sharp shock announcements.

widnes will replace on of salford, cas or wakefield. i think this is now for certain. those three super league sides have been deemed weakest by most who have an opinion for the past couple of years. the failure of any to deliver a stadium is a big problem for them, despite the state of the economy. salford, it seems have stolen a march on the stadium front, and have started recruiting big name players. it will be hard to chose between cas and wakefield. they have so many similarities, and that will go against one of them. so much store is set on the new stadium these days by the rfl. hkr will have to improve by the time the next applications come around. my thoughts are that we will lose one of the yorkshire sides. which one, as yetits too close to call.

There's only three in danger imo: us, Wakey and Salford

and no, neither the council nor anyone else has mooted a Cas-Wakey merger (well, anyone else who matters, not random posters on here

). The council did suggest one stadium development and a ground share: Wakey said 'not interested' and we responded with 'we'll press ahead with Glasshoughton). The bit question, imo, is what, if anything, happens with those stadium developments, esp Glasshoughton and Newmarket, but also Salford, between now and April. As a minimum, building work needs to be actually taking place (as for instance it will be at Saints

) - but we've known that for three years really.

I know that Cas and Wakey have promised new stadiums, but in the current financial climate this is proving very difficult and if any club were to be dumped just because of the ground issue it would be a lousy thing for the RFL to do. I cannot see why we don't select a NL1 side as indicated and have a 15 team division with a bye round for each. If the ground id the ONLY issue, it should be extended for the next franchise period which will hopefully lead to better financial times and allow clubs longer to raise the cash needed.

.................and we'll still be at the stage where Chairmen are being photgraphed with a hard hat stood next to a digger, saying "We're about to move the earth".

Balls to that.

Leeds Rhinos to drop out and the whole team shall relocate to the NRL. The last three grand finals have proven this league isn’t motivating Leeds Rhinos stars anymore.

They only get up for big games whilst been complacent against the lower sides.

Yeah, we've done that before - about 40 times now, I think. They said last time, 'We're building a new stadium' yet, no new stadium. 'We're building a new stadium'. Where is it?

Problem is, as soon as they step foot in Oz the English lot are hit with the big gash stick.

Saints will not play at their new stadium till 2013

It will prob be cas stadium is a dump plus the fact they gone fined with there fans not really looking good is it

Fair enough wakeys ground is a dump aswell but think the whole fans thing will give cas the boot

If it was upto me i'd get rid of quins the bunch of charity cases plus done nothing

Couldn't agree more but after Nigel Wood put his big size 11 in his mouth on Bootsandall very early in the season they cannot back track now or they would look foolish- mind you they are idiots anyway.

Why , hadn't the butties arrived

SL winners x ??
CC winners x ??
good crowds
excellent production of kids
stadium IS on its way

Reckon they are in with a shout of a new franchise, don't you

I didn't say they wouldn't get a franchise

But this isn't going to be the case, not by a long shot. Let's say Widnes, Barrow or Halifax come up, can any of the clubs being mooted say for certain that they are stronger than any of these clubs? Of course they can't in the same way that Widnes couldn't prove that they were stronger than Salford or the Crusaders last time. It is an objective decision and wouldn't last a second in court.

This is also not what licensing has been from day one. They pick the 14 clubs they want in, nothing to do with who is strongest.

Trust me I argued enough about it last time but the process works like this. They give clubs a grade A-C, A's and B's are guaranteed entry C's are not. Approximately 2/3rds of the clubs were given a C grade meaning that they could pick 6 clubs out of the final 11 without having to justify them in the slightest as they technically had the same grade. The same will apply this time around.

If those 5 criteria for Championship clubs are correct then Barrow won't be eligible. Their ground has a capacity of ~8k and they have not averaged 2,500 last season or this one.

I don't care what anyone "thinks", "knows" etc the Vikings ARE NOT guaranteed to be shoehorned into SL!!!

They may meet a few of the criteria, but this is RL and you know what happens when they control things!!!

The saddest thing about this whole FIASCO , which is what it is, is that it has next to nothing to do withwhat happens on the field and that is the KEY SELLING POINT OF RUGBY LEAGUE!!!!!

Everything else is secondary.

Sadly the RFL etc see it completely the other way round!

Spot on

So the RFL in their wisdom have announced extra criteria a few weeks before the end of the qualifying season for the Championship clubs that are in a position to apply for SL

I'm completely surprised

Licences were graded only after they were awarded. Clubs which didn't win a licence didn't have their licence graded, for the fairly obvious reason that they didn't have a licence to grade. So no – 11 applicants didn't get a C grade of which only six were picked.

Really worried now, but i am not surprised. We must be favourites as we have the worst ground in SL and are making no progress with the new one.

I missed a trick. Whats gone wrong with the Wakey stadium development

Starry the clubs have known about them for the season.

TOC made a point of trying to drum up support at Widnes earlier in the year in an effort to get the turnover over the £1m mark but he attributed it at the time to unlocking the extra 100k on the National league salary cap.

Both Leigh and Halifax have referred to the minimum crowd figures in press releases in the last few months too. The Leigh one was in the press release for your home game against Widnes.

So basically with how many months notice before the end of a 3 year qualifying period , or is it something they decided upon once the Toulouse fiasco came out , that was around feb/early March wasn't it