Yep. And what many people appear to forget is that we almost did die thanks to our backward, short-termist attitudes.
We're still recovering from that period in our sports history.
Sadly I still regularly see those same attitudes at all levels of RL.

or



?

Tough choice.

The pictures say it all.

If you want to start something good, don't waste time with old ideas. Go to new places, with different thinking/perspectives, start winning and attracting winners and then bring it home. Moving at the pace of the old Clubs / towns which have lost their meaning is a sure way to die.

What better for our boys to aspire to. Overseas games - new culture. Stuck in the mud - no way, Jose.

As a small positive, how great for opposing players to get to travel to Canada? If I were a part time player I'd jump at the chance.

But but but how will they get the time off work?!?! They have families dammit!!

Which is the reason we need to grow. We can no longer depend on part-time players but obtain the financial backing for 20+ full-time teams. Which is why I ask about the bigger settlements. Getting into Manchester or Birmingham is a catch-22 issue: we need the interest/support for a local team and the local successful team at the same time!
Some experiments I'd walk away from (e.g. mid-Lancashire/Chorley/etc.). Oxford and Coventry (and Gloucester as well) need nurturing.

Agree with this. I think Birmingham would be a struggle especially as we have little to no presence there. I think we should target Manchester and Newcastle using Salford and Newcastle(Gateshead) Thunder as the basis to start from. I'd like to see internationals held in both those cities with lots of RFL promotion tied in to try and get people to both give RL a try at amateur level and to go down to either Salford or Newcastle. And then do that consistently along with other things like Magic Weekend obviously, the RFL to promote big games for these teams in the cities a couple of times a year etc. But crucially we can't just do it once or twice and then just hope. It has to be consistent investment of time and effort into the areas.

Not wishing to be too pedantic but, there is already 1 major event in Manchester every year and magic weekend is on it's second year in Newcastle (both should be helpful in generating some local interest.
A lot of this is down to the quality of marketing and exposure that are given to the events and perhaps this is the area that needs to improve to give the sport a helping hand.

Not read all the posts but im not convinced rugby league, especially in the UK has the best people in charge when it comes to marketing or spreading the word or if they have anyone for this.

Rugby League could be huge in any country. Its the best sport in the world.
there should be a huge push to get it recognised in the US.

someone in the US owned a bar and watched rugby games and couldnt tell why she really enjoyed some games and hated others.
because like most americans, and some english dont know the difference between league and union.
once i explained, she agreed, even having played football that rugby league is the best sport.
USA is crying out for rugby league.

I also agree that expanding slowly from the current hotbed is important where rugby league is already prevalent but you only have to look at Catalan to see how expansion can work in this way.
London could get a better following if they where situated in the right place, and not in the middle of nowhere where noone can get to.
i think the change in format of playoffs has been a positive change for growth.

Also the rfl should be giving tickets away for every event that is televised to school children. College students, anyone that might be exposed and turned into fans, and to have every game to capacity.
mainly talking about magic weekends, and internationals that may not fill a stadium

Provided that the RFL actually promote the events in those cities.

I remember when the Magic Weekend was in Scotland and there was nothing around the city centre to even suggest there was anything happening.

We can't go into none RL areas and just assume people will know about it.

Totally agree.
We need to promote these things properly, instead of the "build t and they will come" style that we usually come up with.
If we want to sell magic weekend to the locals, we need to be hitting all of the local tv and radio stations up there and stick a great big rugby ball on the "Angel of the North".

SIMPLES: re Magic
between each "proper game" 2 "7 a side" games for 12 - 14 year olds from the local area, say 6 teams of 10 each, a a league for that goes to atrophy.
The kids get into playing in front of people at a big occasion with parents watching.
Easy to play 7 aside across the pitch

I had wondered whether the Toronto side would have been given a home in Birmingham or somewhere like that in an attempt to expand the game on both national and international fronts.

a trophy not atrophy: RL HQ has enoughof the latter

I'm trying to think of a sport that I enjoy watching but have never had any interest or exeperience in playing.
I'm all for expansion, but my point is that do people just watch sport because they enjoy it or is it born out of some experience with the game.

The best example is London. It was in the top flight for many years, yes it moved about but we are talking London one of the biggest and richest cities in the world and it could not get a regular 5000 people turning up to watch.

I know the saying is build it and they will come, but I doubt that the sheer enthusiasm of a backer can spur 10,000 to turn up to watch a game they have no experience of.

You're from Halifax. Sowerby Bridge is what you'd call call a weekend away. Or for those from Warley, maybe a week at Hollingworth Lake.

Did Birmingham show any interest?
Maybe it won't work. But that won't be the fault of the people from Toronto.

80,000 people watching the NFL at Wembley say you're wrong.

London is certainly not the best example. London Broncos was and is a pitiful joke of a club, they got just about every single thing wrong that it is possible to get wrong. If I lived in London I wouldn't watch the Broncos if you paid me, I would watch Skolars. It also doesn't help that London is a place which already has negative preconceptions about RL, which TBH are probably justified given the attitudes of a number of fans who seem to want the sport confined to dying Northern pit towns.

How do you explain Sheffield Steelers and Nottingham Panthers getting average crowds of 5k and upto 10k for bigger games in a game in Iceland Hockey that has almost no presence in this country.

For me, there is an Andrew Johns in every city in the world, he's just not played the game. If we expand we will tap into a greater talent pool and our sport will improve because of it. More players, more high quality players, more teams, more high quality teams, more fans, more interest, more money, therefore we keep our better players in this sport, all round we have a better sport!

The population in towns like Halifax Batley Wigan Hull Castelford is minute. There's a whole world out there. Canada Chile Scandinavia Jamaica Serbia are all growing their interest in our sport. It can only be good for the game if we tap into that.

Don't use London as an example. They were ran abysmally. Had they ran a club in Yorkshire, it would have been relegated.

There are plenty of examples of sport being popular, without large numbers taking part.

American Football (they can fill Wembley stadium and the game isn't really played in this country)
Tour de France (Yorkshire) Huge numbers watching a sport that has never previously had mass appeal
Horse Racing. Not too many people have taken part in this but, plenty turn up to watch
The Boat Race (the biggest load of tosh ever but, viewing and spectator numbers are huge)

Even Figure Skating was popular a few years ago.

It's all about publicity and hype, plus clever marketing

If we paid some celebrities and put an advert together along the lines of "I'll be going, will you" and gave it sufficient air time, people would turn up.

The media can generate interest in absolutely anything. For our sport, it has proved too difficult to get them on board.
As to why they are so reluctant to show any interest is not known but, with the right marketing, anything can be "sold" to the general public.

I keep reading in League Express how the amateur game in the heartlands is in a steep decline. If that is the case is there any choice but to expand the boundaries of the game? Or are less people playing in Hull because there is a club in Oxford now?

They don't show any interest because people in most of the country don't care about Wigan and Hull, and have never even heard of most of the other places where RL is popular.

We have expand to attract new people to the game and new sponsors.
We are expanding, but at a slow pace.