How ironic now he moans, didnt see him speak up when Leeds and Bradford lost players

I find it quite amusing that clubs are worried and yet do sweet FA about it.

It's called FORWARD PLANNING and is used quite extensively in business, but seems to be an alien concept to sport in general in GB.

Perhaps that is the reason why the national teams are such world beaters amongst the few sports that have utilsed the concept.

We were hearing this ten years ago when Morley went to Australia and Robinson and Harris went to union.

The RFL set up that Club GB thing to make sure Cunningham stayed in league and was available to play for GB (ironic)

Yes a few players did go to union...Chev Walker, Gareth Raynor, Karl Pryce, and then we lost Sibbit, Thorman and later Ellis to the NRL, but the game survived.

I'm sure McManus would be celebrating for the good of the game if the salary cap was lifted and Simon Moran was able to outspend the Saints so Eastmond and Graham signed for Warrington, rather than being lost to another competition.

It's not that we can't produce 420 British players. It's that we can't produce 420 British players who are able to match Aus/NZ in terms of quality and ability. If we could the international game would have a better chance of being competitive

But playing in a comp full of mediocre imports hasn't worked...well not for the last 15 years it hasn't anyway.

As I say, the Australians are now starting to pay the price for over reliance on islanders and Kiwis.....the toyota cup is crammed with non-australian talent.......the Kiwis will dominate over the next 10 years once the slaters et al are gone.

ESL should be about European players...not dog f()ckers or has beens. Hull Kingston Australia and a few other teams are just taking the pi55....and the international game (as far as England is concerned) is suffering as a result.

You are fast turning out to be one of my favorite posters.

Was down in Wellington yesterday - bit of a 'fresh' wind for us Bay softies.

I really don't feel any sympathy for St Helens, not just because I don't like them, but the big teams don't bat an eye lid when they sign the best players from outside the top 4/6 super league teams. I'll give you Micheal Shenton, Richie Myler and Ryan Atkins as an example, or Paul Sculthorpe, Terry O'Connor and Gary Connolly going back further.

Now I don't like players going to Union, as that reduces our international pool of players, but how can anyone complain when a player decides to better himself within the better code rugby. There has been much talk of Australian talent being on the decline, but they always seems to handle the loss of their top players to union. What we need is better production of home grown players. With the Aussie's raising their salary cap, super league teams are going to have no choice but to start producing more home grown players.

McManus is only concerned with the good of his Saints team, not the good of the game. So he should shut up and stop moaning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...nowt but a breeze lad...nowt but a breeze

Personally I don't think Graham should go to the NRL for a couple of reasons.

1. We have already got about 3 or 4 poms in the NRL. Yes, I understand we have to help develop the English game.. but I look at it this way. If there are say 4 poms in the NRL.. thats 4 places taken up that Aussie players could have. 4 is plenty. Swap him with Burgess or Eliss.. but there is no need to take another one on. I don't have a problem with giving poms a go in the NRL but it should be on a rotational basis.. one in, one out.

2. He is not good enough.

How is he not good enough? Petero Civoneceva has said he'd be a big hit and he stands up well against Australian test prop forwards, so surely with NRL training and coaching he'd make it over there.

Well he's not good enough... because he is not good enough!

I cant really put it much simpler than that for you!


He was no great shakes in the 4 nations... which was supposed to be where he would win man of the series and prove to the world he was only slightly less stoppable than superman.

But surprise surprise.. he was shown to be a very ordinary fat little ranga with milk bottle white legs and a bad complexion.





I'm sure an NRL club will take him on... but I feel a bit disappointed they will.

Just my opinion.

Australia v England, 31 October 2010

Nate Myles - Runs (14), Metres (95m), Busts (0), Tackles (22), Offloads (0), Errors (0), Penalties (0)
Petero Civoniceva - Runs (6), Metres (40m), Busts (0), Tackles (24), Offloads (0), Errors (0), Penalties (1)

James Graham - Runs (15), Metres (98m), Busts (1), Tackles (2icon_cool.gif, Offloads (2), Errors (0), Penalties (0)

Clearly outclassed by the best props in Australia, as evidenced by him taking the ball in more, making more metres, making more busts, making more tackles, offloading more and making no errors and giving no penalties away.

He'll never make it over there.

Oh, and he didn't say "don't play me against the big bad kiwis, I can't cope" unlike a certain Australia prop.

Correct.

More ' interesting ' stuff news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_l ... 326322.stm 16 clubs in SL 2012 ?

More ' interesting ' stuff news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_l ... 326322.stm 16 clubs in SL 2012 ?

Quote ="Starbug"More ' interesting ' stuff news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_l ... 326322.stm 16 clubs in SL 2012 ?'" Will only work if the clubs stop throwing money away on overseas crocks and use HARD WORK to produce world beaters. They wont of course they will take the easy option and speak proudly of being able to have a quota place and spend more time money & effort filling that spot than say helping out a local amateur team or kids team.

Quote ="Starbug"More ' interesting ' stuff news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_l ... 326322.stm 16 clubs in SL 2012 ?'" Will only work if the clubs stop throwing money away on overseas crocks and use HARD WORK to produce world beaters. They wont of course they will take the easy option and speak proudly of being able to have a quota place and spend more time money & effort filling that spot than say helping out a local amateur team or kids team.

Quote ="Starbug"More ' interesting ' stuff news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_l ... 326322.stm 16 clubs in SL 2012 ?'" I can see the par that's got you excited, Quote The RFL is still to decide just how many teams will contest Super League XVII in 2012, meaning that there is still uncertainty over the number of relegation places.'" but I'd point out a few things: 1) That's not Lewis's statement, it's by the anonymous author of an unbylined piece , which appears to be a straight and lazy "take this ptess release, add a top and tail so it looks like an article and stick it on the site" job. 2) There is nothing in Lewis's quoted words to support or back up the statement 3) Two bodies decide the size and entry methods for Super League: the RFL and SLE (ie the existing clubs) That latter body voted earlier this year to keep SL at 14 clubs for 2012-14. I honestly wouldn't read anything into this beyond poor journalism in a holiday period when the desk is understaffed 3) T

Quote ="Starbug"More ' interesting ' stuff news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_l ... 326322.stm 16 clubs in SL 2012 ?'" I can see the par that's got you excited, Quote The RFL is still to decide just how many teams will contest Super League XVII in 2012, meaning that there is still uncertainty over the number of relegation places.'" but I'd point out a few things: 1) That's not Lewis's statement, it's by the anonymous author of an unbylined piece , which appears to be a straight and lazy "take this ptess release, add a top and tail so it looks like an article and stick it on the site" job. 2) There is nothing in Lewis's quoted words to support or back up the statement 3) Two bodies decide the size and entry methods for Super League: the RFL and SLE (ie the existing clubs) That latter body voted earlier this year to keep SL at 14 clubs for 2012-14. I honestly wouldn't read anything into this beyond poor journalism in a holiday period when the desk is understaffed 3) T

Sneaky lot them journalists arent they ?

lazy lot, by and large

Whilst some of our readers might suppose that, I could not possibly comment...

Why produce your own 'world beaters'? What's the point?

Wigan are producing some top youngsters at the moment. Our academy is the best in the league & we have some of the finest youngsters in British rugby league - why develop them all?

Think about, we develop all these lads - we're never going to be able to keep them all? The salary cap at 1.65 million does not permit it. Don't hackle on about overseas players either, because the value of British players has been driven up through the lures of Rugby Union & the NRL, plus the lack of quality british players knocking around in Super League, because other clubs don't produce them. Not to mention the fact the NRL have a much higher salary cap and Yawnion have an unlimited pot. Saints cannot compete with Union for Kyle Eastmond.

You just get another Melbourne situation. It is absolutely criminal what happened to Melbourne Storm. The interview with David Gallop (think that's his name) with Gus Gould on youtube about the whole situation quite frankly knocks me sick.

Criminal what happened to Melbourne? They didn't produce hardly any of that side! Yes brought in Toyota cup & NRL but not at an early age! Not that many NRL sides run full youth set ups but the talent is still spread and internationally they get recognition for that!

where abouts are the aussies stealing these islanders from just out of interest?

What rubbish.

Adam Blair - first grade debut for the Storm at 20
Cooper Cronk - first grade debut for the Storm at 20
Ryan Hoffman - first grade debut for the Storm at 19
Greg Inglis - first grade debut for the Storm at 18
Billy Slater first grade debut for the Storm at 19
Cam Smith - first grade debut for the Storm at 19
Brett White - first grade debut for the Storm at 22
Israel Falou - first grade debut for the Storm at 17
Dallas Johnson - first grade debut for the Storm at 21

Unless you get them at 12 it doesn't count

So why were they talking about Widdop as one of the first 'Melbourne' produced players? If you make your debut at a club doesn't necessarily mean that club brought them through as their own!