How many of our administrators went to top public schools and thus have the right contacts in the upper echelons of industry and government?

seriously? If RL doesn't get rid of the massive chip on it's shoulder then it will for ever continue to play second fiddle to a list of other sports...many of which that also don't have administrators who went to public schools

Dave Brailsford has shown what happens when you get the right person in the right place - nothing to do with connections its 90% perspiration 10% inspiration. Only time Nigel Wood get perspiration is if he thinks he might miss a meal!!

Think we need the Union PR people to promote our game.
A totally meaningless England nearly 2nd grade team against the Barbarians game of touch and pass attracted over 60k spectators, a total we can only achieve over 2 days for all the Super league teams.

Exactly.

They discounted tickets to the England v Fiji game last Autumn...started at 30 quid and they filled Twickenham and got 423,000 watching on Sky TV...the next day England RL played France RL in Salford in the final of ther Autumn series in front of 8,963 fans and a TV audience that didn't register to feature on BARBS tables.

There needs to be a total clear out at the top of the RFL IMHO if the sport is to ever get any traction outside of it's traditional heartlands and audiences.

Has RU got any traction outside of its heartland. From what I read Newcastle and Leeds RU clubs aren't going so well?

What we do need to is engage better with the 20 million people that live along the m62 heartland corridor to get them to games first then build the tv audience across the country. Chicken and egg though as marketing costs money and the game has little to spend. What I have seen the rfl are doing a much better job over last couple of yers with direct marketing and the World Cup development.

Both are doing a damn sight better than Crusaders and London broncos, but point taken.



I'd suggest getting to know the 70,000 to 80,000 they currently do business with better first...then trying to attract the other 70,000 to 100,000 that watch SL on TV. The vast majority of the "heartland" audienceare wendyball fans...




Are they ......seriously, they flogged 1,500 bulk sale, cash back option tickets for a tenner each to the wembley double header semi-finals and think it's great, managed to get less people to magic weekend and they have a car rental and hotel "partner" in place for RLWC 2013....which are both contra deals.

the Extraordinary campaign has been EXTRAORDINARILY crap.....they are now giving away shirts with exiles tickets because last year giving away tickets didn't work......the RFL are a basket case when it comes to marketing.

of the 12,000,000 or so that live in London and the south east, I reckon you'd be going great guns if even 1% know RLWC was happening this year......
...happy to be proved wrong by the way, but doubt I will be.

There are two sides to 'comparing with RU'. Firstly, its correct that they have a different demographic, an inherent media and establishment bias, etc. For that reason, attempting to ape RU is the wrong approach. An example of this (albeit connected to Sport England, I accept) is the contrived Home Nations teams at the expense of Great Britain.

However, whilst copying specifics of RU is wrong, there are generalities that we can learn from ( although not uniquely from RU if we're talking generalities of course ). In fact, the above example is one of those things. The attraction of the international game is as much about 'tradition' and what it means as it is an individual game. When you watch those players pulling on a famous shirt, a part of you is watching the previous generation and remembering their history. That's why it was mistake to effectively drop Great Britain.

More significantly though, the sports that do well have strong leadership, with a clear vision of the sport's brand, that are able to inspire confidence in investors and sponsors, etc. Unfortunately our game's leaders simply lack the charisma (and almost certainly IMO the competence) to win that confidence. I've been laughed at for mentioning Nigel's suits, but only by people like Smokey, too thick to understand that the point isn't the suit, its that when a leadership team puts up on their website an image of them all looking, frankly, like a convention of regional scrap metal dealers ( no offense, 'tis a noble trade ) it tells you something about their understanding of image and marketing (i.e. they don't have much idea). There's just a lack of professionalism in the image of the game. What continues to mystify me, is how the failure to find a main sponsor isn't a resignation issue (and this BS about lots of little sponsors being just as good is just excuses - it's not either/or, and don't tell me they'd turn away a main sponsor if they could have found one)

International Union has a lot of bandwaggoners as well as corporate fans in attendance....the RFL needs to find a way to get the corporates attending, whilst a great performance by the team at the RLWC 2013 will give the RFL the opportunity to press on with some serious marketing for the 2014 season and beyond.

The problem is, history tells us that they RFL will pat themselves on the back with regard to certain attendances at the RLWC but then drop the ball in follow up marketing.

We are told there are a gfreat number of "first timers" who have bough tickets to the RLWC.......these people need to be consistently engaged for feedback and offered the chance to attend SL games.

Starting with the bulk 1,500 London and St Albans Kids and family tickets.....these people need to be engaged by the RFL on behalf of Hemel Stags and London Broncos....they are the future of the game.

Quote ="gutterfax"International Union has a lot of bandwaggoners as well as corporate fans in attendance....the RFL needs to find a way to get the corporates attending, whilst a great performance by the team at the RLWC 2013 will give the RFL the opportunity to press on with some serious marketing for the 2014 season and beyond. The problem is, history tells us that they RFL will pat themselves on the back with regard to certain attendances at the RLWC but then drop the ball in follow up marketing. We are told there are a gfreat number of "first timers" who have bough tickets to the RLWC.......these people need to be consistently engaged for feedback and offered the chance to attend SL games. Starting with the bulk 1,500 London and St Albans Kids and family tickets.....these people need to be engaged by the RFL on behalf of Hemel Stags and London Broncos....they are the future of the game.'" Couldn't agree more. Barring a catastrophic performance by England, its the best opportunity for a long time to raise the profile. Even the most Union-biased rags will write about a World Cup Final with England in it. Do we have the skill to take advantage long-term? It's up to this lot: www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/about_t ... _directors (by the way, they improved their suits since last time I looked).

Quote ="gutterfax"International Union has a lot of bandwaggoners as well as corporate fans in attendance....the RFL needs to find a way to get the corporates attending, whilst a great performance by the team at the RLWC 2013 will give the RFL the opportunity to press on with some serious marketing for the 2014 season and beyond. The problem is, history tells us that they RFL will pat themselves on the back with regard to certain attendances at the RLWC but then drop the ball in follow up marketing. We are told there are a gfreat number of "first timers" who have bough tickets to the RLWC.......these people need to be consistently engaged for feedback and offered the chance to attend SL games. Starting with the bulk 1,500 London and St Albans Kids and family tickets.....these people need to be engaged by the RFL on behalf of Hemel Stags and London Broncos....they are the future of the game.'" Couldn't agree more. Barring a catastrophic performance by England, its the best opportunity for a long time to raise the profile. Even the most Union-biased rags will write about a World Cup Final with England in it. Do we have the skill to take advantage long-term? It's up to this lot: www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/about_t ... _directors (by the way, they improved their suits since last time I looked).

[uSL Round 15 attendances - comparison to same fixtures last year[/u

Salford V Bradford in 2013 = 5,106
Salford V Bradford in 2012 = 6,829
% decrease = -25.23%

Warrington V Hull in 2013 = 9,387
Warrington V Hull in 2012 = 10,582
% decrease = -11.29%

Widnes V Huddersfield in 2013 = 5,173
Widnes V Huddersfield in 2012 = 4,644
% increase = +11.39%

Catalan V Castleford in 2013 = 7,083
Catalan V Castleford in 2012 = 7,488
% decrease = -5.41%

London V Wigan in 2013 = 3,594
London V Wigan in 2012 = 4,309
% decrease = -16.59%

Hull KR V Wakefield in 2013 = 6,933
Hull KR V Wakefield in 2012 = 8,726
% decrease = -20.55%

Leeds V St Helens in 2013 = 15,998
Leeds V St Helens in 2012 = 15,343
% increase = +4.27%

Total Attendance in SL Round 15 = 53,274
Total Attendance same fixtures last year = 57,921
% decrease = -8.02%

5 out of 7 fixtures in Round 15 have shown a decrease in attendance compared to the same SL fixtures last year.

**********************

Out of 103 SL fixtures played thus far in 2013, 25 out of 103 have shown an increase in attendance compared to the corresponding SL fixtures last year. 78 out of 103 fixtures have shown a decrease in attendance compared to the corresponding SL fixtures last year.

[uRound 1 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 64,387 (Avg: 9,19icon_cool.gif
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 63,376 (Avg: 9,054)
% increase = +1.59%

[uRound 2 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 69,809 (Avg: 9,973)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 71,989 (Avg: 10,284)
% decrease = -3.03%

[uRound 3 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 58,711 (Avg: 8,387)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 71,246 (Avg: 10,17icon_cool.gif
% decrease = -17.59%

[uRound 4 Fixtures (6 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 46,166 (Avg: 7,694)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 55,477 (Avg: 9,246)
% decrease = -16.78%

[uRound 5 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 50,207 (Avg: 7,172)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 57,593 (Avg: 8,22icon_cool.gif
% decrease = -12.82%

[uRound 6 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 67,079 (Avg: 9,583)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 71,439 (Avg: 10,206)
% decrease = -6.10%

[uRound 7 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 57,048 (Avg: 8,150)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 69,941 (Avg: 9,992)
% decrease = -18.43%

[uRound 8 Fixtures (6 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 42,216 (Avg: 7,036)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 60,028 (Avg: 10,005)
% decrease = -29.67%

[uRound 9 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 80,429 (Avg: 11,490)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 81,841 (Avg: 11,692)
% decrease = -1.73%

[uRound 10 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 57,882 (Avg: 8,269)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 71,601 (Avg: 10,229)
% decrease = -19.16%

[uRound 11 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 55,117 (Avg: 7,874)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 62,013 (Avg: 8,859)
% decrease = -11.12%

[uRound 12 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 53,477 (Avg: 7,640)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 63,337 (Avg: 9,04icon_cool.gif
% decrease = -15.57%

[uRound 13 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 49,525 (Avg: 7,075)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 59,648 (Avg: 8,521)
% decrease = -16.97%

[uRound 14 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 68,617 (Avg: 9,802)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 80,737 (Avg: 11,534)
% decrease = -15.01%

[uRound 15 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 53,274 (Avg: 7,611)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 57,921 (Avg: 8,274)
% decrease = -8.02%

[uRounds 1 to 15 Fixtures (103 in total)[/u
Total attendance for 103 fixtures in 2013 = 873,944 (Avg: 8,485)
Total attendance for same 103 fixtures in 2012 = 998,187 (Avg: 9,691)
Cumulative attendance loss = 124,243
% decrease = -12.45%

[uClub... Games... 2013... 2012... %gain/loss[/u
Widnes... 7... 45135... 44152... +2.23%
Hull... 7... 85538... 87379... -2.11%
Wakefield... 6... 46926... 48877... -3.99%
Leeds... 8... 118908... 123944... -4.06%
Hull KR... 8... 59611... 63098... -5.53%
Wigan... 7... 104195... 110618... -5.81%
Castleford... 8... 48298... 51585... -6.37%
Warrington... 7... 73883... 79098... -6.59%
Catalan... 7... 53330... 63851... -16.48%
Huddersfield... 7... 44944... 55584... -19.14%
St Helens... 8... 86433... 110702... -21.92%
Bradford... 7... 63451... 88769... -28.52%
London... 8... 17455... 24746... -29.46%
Salford... 8... 25837... 45784... -43.57%

TOTAL... 103... 873944... 998187... -12.45%

[uCurrent Average Attendances V Same Fixtures Last Year[/u
[uClub... SL:2013... (SL:2012)[/u
Wigan... 14885... (15803)
Leeds... 14863... (15493)
Hull... 12220... (12483)
St Helens... 10804... (1383icon_cool.gif
Warrington... 10555... (11300)
Bradford... 9064... (12681)
Wakefield... 7821... (8146)
Catalan... 7619... (9122)
Hull KR... 7451... (7887)
Widnes... 6448... (6307)
Huddersfield... 6421... (7941)
Castleford... 6037... (644icon_cool.gif
Salford... 3230... (5723)
London... 2182... (3093)

During the current franchised, 14 club, top 8 play-off system SL era... the total attendances in SL to date remain the lowest we have ever witnessed. Neither the replacement of the poorly-supported Crusaders with the better-supported Widnes, or the establishment of 2 new stadia, or the re-establishment of heavily-discounted SL tickets has prevented 2013 SL attendances from being the worst on record so far.

[uSL Rounds 1 to 15 total attendances comparison (2009 to 2013)[/u
=#FF0000SL 2013 - 873,944 from 103 fixtures.
SL 2012 - 998,187 from the same 103 fixtures.
SL 2011 - 928,401 from the same 103 fixtures, apart from replace Widnes with Crusaders.
SL 2010 - 901,412 from the same 103 fixtures, apart from replace Widnes with Crusaders.
SL 2009 - 907,721 from the same 103 fixtures, apart from replace Widnes with Crusaders.

[uSL 2013 % decrease in attendances[/u
V SL 2012 = -12.45%
V SL 2011 = -5.87%
V SL 2010 = -3.05%
V SL 2009 = -3.72%

[uSL Round 16 MAGIC WEEKEND attendances - comparison to same event last year[/u

Saturday attendance 2013 = 30,793
Saturday attendance 2012 = 30,763
% increase = +0.10%

Sunday attendance 2013 = 31,249
Sunday attendance 2012 = 32,953
% decrease = -5.17%

Total attendance 2013 = 62,042
Total attendance 2012 = 63,716
% decrease = -2.63%

[uMAGIC WEEKEND TOTAL ATTENDANCE COMPARISONS (2007 TO 2013)[/u

Total attendance 2013 = 62,042 - Manchester
Total attendance 2012 = 63,716 - Manchester
Total attendance 2011 = 60,214 - Cardiff
Total attendance 2010 = 52,043 - Edinburgh
Total attendance 2009 = 59,749 - Edinburgh
Total attendance 2008 = 63,144 - Cardiff
Total attendance 2007 = 58,831 - Cardiff

[uRound 1 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 64,387 (Avg: 9,19icon_cool.gif
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 63,376 (Avg: 9,054)
% increase = +1.59%

[uRound 2 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 69,809 (Avg: 9,973)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 71,989 (Avg: 10,284)
% decrease = -3.03%

[uRound 3 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 58,711 (Avg: 8,387)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 71,246 (Avg: 10,17icon_cool.gif
% decrease = -17.59%

[uRound 4 Fixtures (6 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 46,166 (Avg: 7,694)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 55,477 (Avg: 9,246)
% decrease = -16.78%

[uRound 5 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 50,207 (Avg: 7,172)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 57,593 (Avg: 8,22icon_cool.gif
% decrease = -12.82%

[uRound 6 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 67,079 (Avg: 9,583)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 71,439 (Avg: 10,206)
% decrease = -6.10%

[uRound 7 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 57,048 (Avg: 8,150)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 69,941 (Avg: 9,992)
% decrease = -18.43%

[uRound 8 Fixtures (6 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 42,216 (Avg: 7,036)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 60,028 (Avg: 10,005)
% decrease = -29.67%

[uRound 9 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 80,429 (Avg: 11,490)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 81,841 (Avg: 11,692)
% decrease = -1.73%

[uRound 10 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 57,882 (Avg: 8,269)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 71,601 (Avg: 10,229)
% decrease = -19.16%

[uRound 11 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 55,117 (Avg: 7,874)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 62,013 (Avg: 8,859)
% decrease = -11.12%

[uRound 12 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 53,477 (Avg: 7,640)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 63,337 (Avg: 9,04icon_cool.gif
% decrease = -15.57%

[uRound 13 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 49,525 (Avg: 7,075)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 59,648 (Avg: 8,521)
% decrease = -16.97%

[uRound 14 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 68,617 (Avg: 9,802)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 80,737 (Avg: 11,534)
% decrease = -15.01%

[uRound 15 Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 53,274 (Avg: 7,611)
Total attendance for same fixtures in 2012 = 57,921 (Avg: 8,274)
% decrease = -8.02%

[uRound 16 MAGIC WEEKEND Fixtures (7 in total)[/u
Total attendance in 2013 = 62,042 (Avg: 8,863)
Total attendance at same event in 2012 = 63,716 (Avg: 9,102)
% decrease = -2.66%

[uRounds 1 to 16 Fixtures (110 in total)[/u
Total attendance for 103 fixtures plus 7 MAGIC fixtures in 2013 = 935,986 (Avg: 8,509)
Total attendance for same 103 fixtures plus 7 MAGIC fixtures in 2012 = 1,061,903 (Avg: 9,654)
Cumulative attendance loss = 125,917
% decrease = -11.86%

Way too much time on your hands there Rainman.

During the current franchised, 14 club, top 8 play-off system SL era... the total attendances in SL to date remain the lowest we have ever witnessed. Neither the replacement of the poorly-supported Crusaders with the better-supported Widnes, or the establishment of 2 new stadia, or the re-establishment of heavily-discounted SL tickets has prevented 2013 SL attendances from being the worst on record so far.

[uSL Rounds 1 to 15 total attendances comparison (2009 to 2013)[/u
=#FF0000SL 2013 - 935,986 from 103 fixtures plus 7 MAGIC fixtures.
SL 2012 - 1,061,903 from same 103 fixtures plus 7 MAGIC fixtures.
SL 2011 - 988,615 from same 103 fixtures plus 7 MAGIC fixtures =#FF0000**
SL 2010 - 953,455 from same 103 fixtures plus 7 MAGIC fixtures =#FF0000**
SL 2009 - 967,470 from same 103 fixtures plus 7 MAGIC fixtures =#FF0000**

[uSL 2013 % decrease in attendances[/u
V SL 2012 = -11.86%
V SL 2011 = -5.32%
V SL 2010 = -1.83%
V SL 2009 = -3.25%

=#FF0000** except replace Widnes with Crusaders

As opposed to Huddersfield fans not having enough time on their hands judging by their poor home attendances which are almost 20% down on last season? Perhaps Huddersfield could continue to flogging adult tickets for £8 in the hope of another 8,000+ turnout by away supporters? That's one way of propping up your lamentably poor attendances

Erm how can 2013 (873,944) be lowest when you have 2009 (851,112)....over 22,000 less???

If anyone is aware of any GROUPON offers for tickets this season at any of the SL games or any other desperate measures at flogging discounted tickets in order to paint a rosy picture on attendances, feel free to post them on this thread.

I noticed you were online on the VT.

Thanks for not letting me down.

AGAIN.

Bradford V London have offers...