Shocking.

If only all could show as much effort as Raynor.

Truly showed us how far we are off of the top sides in SL.

I see where this analysis comes from but it masks a Murdochian failure in oversight in the club's management. Sykes has been a poor player for 5 seasons. It's not that he's not trying, he's a terrible defender that has been signed and then re-signed twice more. Myler (a scrum half released by Widnes upon their relegation) targeted our right side and they scored 4 walk in tries in the first half and the game was over.

Similarly, the forwards tried their very best, made ground and forced errors in Wire's danger zone in the first half. We were held up over the line a number of times but were unable to fashion a backline move because the players are not good enough.

Ah van's 'metres' suggest he's working at his socks off but we signed him and numerous others out of desperation because our long term vision of squad building had utterly collapsed. Potter has cobbled together a squad from the wreckage of the Macca era and others cast offs and a against a very good side we were shown to be what we are.

I think the players are trying their best but significant numbers of them are not SL standard and ultimately the management of the club has to take responsibility. As has been mentioned on another thread, these are not one offs, but a clear and systemic disaster of recruitment and retention going back years.

Is it me, or has this happened a lot this year?

Well, I don't. And we have even had some players in recent times going public that they don't all put all of it in, all of the time.

I have the coach in my camp:

The comment may relate to some college reflective surfaces course they are on but I don't thinks so, I am sure Potter is directly saying that the attitude of the team was unacceptable, and I agree.

We would almost always lose to Warrington right now given the respective squads.

But we should never lose as abjectly as that.

And that's the crux of the matter really. Not making the eight just saves us from a stuffing in the first play off game. Having a top eight is a bit of joke really.

Not that it matters even a jot, but unless Leeds has upsticks and moved near Warrington then he doesn't live in Leeds no more.

Raynor may as well of been playing by himself with maybe a little help from Koppy, wouldnt of done much worse - AhVan is a waste of space and if he retains his spot that will be an absolute travesty !!!

what a load of e

Burgess is improving but he was blowing that much after a short stint that he could have blown up a children's bouncy castle. Terribly overweight and unfit. Interesting to see what he Is capable of next year after some proper conditioning.

I think it's a stretch to state that the players require self reflection means that Mick Potter agrees with your view that the players 'clearly and deliberately don't bother'. Against Hudds we started well, gained confidence, made the right the decisions and lost all hesitancy as the crowd got behind them. Against Wire we started poorly, conceded a penalty, then a poor try followed by a knock on and another try in exactly the same position.

These are not issues of effort, they are issues of ability. Ah Van kicked the ball out on the full probably because he was a bit too wound up. It's a vicious cycle of lacking ability, making mistakes, losing confidence, hesitating and it is this that looks like they lack commitment when what they've lost is belief in what they're meant to be doing. We conceded 4 tries in almost exactly the same spot in the first half hour - how is this explained by '1-17 can't be d'? Guys rushing out of the line to close down an overlap is not 'not trying' - it's a misreading the situation by poor players. to say that they turn up to stick 2 fingers up at the fans suggests a level of deceit I just can't buy and I also think it lets others further up the food chain off the hook.

I have to say, IMO that is a persuasive argument.

There are issues of quality, there's no doubt about that but quality manifests itself in different ways. It might be in technique or attitude or both. Potter himself admitted that the club needs a winning culture (implying that we have the opposite at the moment). It seems to me that when things start to go wrong the players go into their shells and then the performances gets worse. This is as much about attitude as well as ability.

Mental toughness is what we're lacking across the park. This side in comparison with previous sides are soft. In both performances versus Warrington we've taken a dry humping big style. In both performances this has been down to making crucial errors. I happen to think mistakes usually come from poor technique which can be down to lack of concentration and effort as well as plain old ability.

The fact that we showed we can make an 80min effort versus decent oppostion was showed versus Hudders. In the fortnight since it seems the mindset we had for that game went out of the window.

I know i stood there to the end, quite embarrasing really. i`ve been there through the good times and i will support my team through the bad times, things go round in circles i`m sure in seasons to come we will get back up there.
I wouldn`t say Orford was a big loss he spent more time off the field than on it.

Wouldn't you?

With the unspeakable one on the field, we rose to 4th in the competition.

What happened from when he was no longer on the field?

Total wuss and toerag he might have been, but with him a fit and motivated I suggest we would have been in a far, far better place than that to which we have since gone.

Agreed, despite any personal feelings towards Ox, he was a class above any other scrum half I've seen at Odsal

That's just not the way it works though. Once or twice you get the odd shock but lets be realistic. This was always going to be a comfortable Wire victory.

Effort counts for a lot, but you can't replace talent and ability.

Plus with Orford we'd have been a solid playoff side last year and this.

Chris Caisley didnt sell either Burgess. Or any of the others.

He got them the deal that they wanted to sign at Souths didn't he?

Maybe so, but Peter Hood said yes, Russell, we'll sell you our prized player and best youngster in succesive seasons, as he has done sinse 2007.

It's a bit harder to keep a top player like that when the side isn't in the hunt for honours and a Hollywood superstar is whispering sweet nothings in his ear. Add to that his agent sorting out a great deal and what did you expect?

Sure it's disappointing. I think though the damage had been done to our prospects of keeping Sam long before Hood became chairman.

Losing George if anything is more disappointing since he never got in the 1st team.

Well i expect the chairman to not sell our best player.

thats funny, i expect our chairman to do what is best for the club. and if that means removing a large salary, so be it. if that means selling a player who has made it clear that he no longer wants to play for the club then so be it.

Rugby is not a game where you want to be forcing players to be stay when they dont. And bradford are not in a financial position to be watching prize assets leave for nothing, when they make it CLEAR they dont want to be there.

And selling our best players season after season certainley isnt best for the club.

On the subject of the result,

I dont like to say I told you so..but..

In another shock prediction, RTB maintains that the Sun will come up in the morning . . .