Don't suppose we got the Administrators on a 3 for 2 deal?

As I say I think gallows humour is a perfectly legitimate way for people to manifest their upset and disquiet. As someone with a dark (way too dark) sense of humour I appreciate that more than hand wringing.

We all will deal with it in our own way.

Spoken like the fake fan you are.

Can we have a 'fan-off' to see who is real and who isn't? I'm sure the T&A Comments section could get a team together. In fact some of them could be employed to see how big someones fan-ship is; they do seem quite keen on adjudging that.

Someone may have suggested this, but I haven't trawled through previous posts to check, so apologies if I'm covering old ground here, but if Koukash wants to buy a team for his wife, as he has alluded to previously, Bradford would be an attractive proposition in my opinion. The term "sleeping giant" is banded about far too often, but that fits your club perfectly. As a Hull fan, I used to look on in envy at past teams and the support you could attract and I genuinely feel it is vital for the game that Bradford return to those heights again, particularly at at time when attendance seems to have declined or at best, plateaued for many clubs. I feel genuinely sorry for the fans that have had to witness this awful situation and hope that a successful outcome that sees you return to your previous position is not too far away.

its been some time since I posted on RLfans for some time now as I don't like whats happening to the game in general, but I can sincerely wish that you can get over your current problems and rebuild just hope you get someone who can run a business than just love to run the club

Let's play nice.

Nobody's happy with the current situation. Turning our ire on each other won't make anyone feel better.

Really sorry to see this, especially to one of our heartlands clubs.

Loyalties and rivalries aside, this is a sad time for the game, and feel for the fans and players.

Now not been a fan of the the club, I am not up to speed on recent events with the full details of the clubs plight.

I think now is the time that the club was fully re structured from top to bottom.

If the club get a deduction of 12 points which is what some are saying, this would probably wipe out the clubs chances of middle 8 rugby next year, and I think it would also end up with a fight against relegation. I have also heard of no points deduction, but automatic relegation.

Personally, the way I see it, is that the club can't afford and sustain the finances to be full time, and this is where a lot of the problem is. Given a choice here, I would review the playing roster, go back part time, and take the automatic relegation, and slowly re build from the bottom up.

I seem to recall Wakefield reviewed contracts of all players over a certain age, I think 25, when they had salary cap issues in 2000. They made them all free agents, and invested heavily in youth for that season

It's all very well saying build from the bottom up as a part time outfit but in real life it's not as easy as that. We would not be able to play at Odsal. No way could a part time team afford the upkeep of the place. We couldn't as a SL side so certainly not on crowds of 500+ in League 1

We couldn't afford to share with BCFC. We could possibly play at the council owned Horsfall playing fields but we'd be in pretty much an amateur level ground. Not exactly suitable for cup ties etc. I think a drop to that level would see crowds fall to below 1000 easily. Building up from that point would not happen. We'd be done.

Professional or semi professional in Bradford is stuffed without someone financing out of their own back pocket. As a business model the lack of suitable facilities make it no go IMO. We're becoming a bit like Hudders in the 80s before Davy came along - a club with a proud history but going nowhere in an antique ground.

In short, as I said before Green took over, we need a Koukash type backer or bust.

Why is Odsal so expensive? Is it the rent or the general upkeep?

This has already happened. I've been told that the 16/17 squad wage spend is £500k-600k cheaper than the 15/16 wage spend.

Now, the next question is how much money was wasted on the 45+ playing roster of the 15/16 squad, and the answer is obviously £500k-600k....

I think everyone who watched the bulls last season could see we weren't getting value for money

There are a number of problems and no easy answers. The RFL have tried to help Bradford they didn't loan Bradford money with the ground as security without Bradford asking for it and the RFL didn't plan on it owning the ground but the more they have tried to help the worse the problem has got. The best thing the RFL can do is sell off the ground to stop you having to play there.

The new owners seem to be making the same noises other have, if the RFL fines us and taken money off us if will be unfair, however someone has to stop clubs getting in debt folding and writing debts off. So whoever takes over will need serious cash not a wing and a promise.

I thing they would need £1m to get you out of admin and if they honour season tickets will probably run at £2m loss this year. Koukash probably regrets owning a club that doesn't own it's ground so I can't see him picking up another club with the same issues. I really hope you come out of this but I can't see as it been a sound investment so it needs someone with cash and a view that they are in it for the love of the club.

The general maintenance of Odsal plus the costs for opening on game day, stewards etc, make it very expensive and unsustainable. Going part time would not see crowds drop below 1000 as the past two years have shown the Bulls hardcore support is about 2.5 - 3k.

Staying full time now is not logical imho, the wage bill for players alone is about £900,000 and the coaching staff will be around the £300,000 mark. This is based on Head Coach £50-70k, Assistant Coach £35k, S&C Coach £35-40k, Physio £30-35k, Head of Youth £40-50k, plus all your other assistants and it amounts to an unmanageable amount. Problem is these are standard wages for a full time set up, certainly one that is always 'pushing' for promotion.

A complete clear out and restructuring of all finances to manageable levels is what is needed, not someone who says 'we'll stabilise and push for Promotion'.

I think previous success creates a pressure at Bradford other teams don't have. While in SL there was a pressure to remain one of the big 4 so over investment in the playing squad and the pressure on the board led to over stretched finances. This led to other issues. The expectation that you would push to come straight back led to other issues and trying to go blow for blow with a team with more money Leigh causes new issues.

I know Hull KR are now where they are, but last time they were down they started with young players that they would develop and took it very slowly. But they went away from that when the were in SL and risked it with imported players.

You should have the clout and company brand to get the best of young British and build the team of tomorrow.

Think our clearout in terms of playing staff has got salaries down massively (apparently £600k off the total bill). Think your estimate for coaching staff is a bit high. We don't actually have some of those positions.

Do you think the Bulls hardcore support will stay at 2.5 to 3k if we go part time? You're kidding yourself. Quite a few are now disillusioned as a result of this episode. Going part time will put more off. We'll be lucky to have a 1000.

I think your broader point about restructuring is what any new owner would need to do anyway.

We have one of the best youth setups in the country. One of the most disappointing things to me personally is seeing this all go potentially down the toilet since the penny has dropped at the club that to progress we need to produce our own players.


Unfortunately that will all go if we don’t get a saviour. I’m not sure what pulling power we’d have for young players if we were part time and couldn’t offer the coaching or facilities we have now.

The council need to flog Horsfall for housing and use the money to re-develop Odsal with Park Avenue playing there. The RFL could do their bit by moving their HQ to Odsal and setting up a centre of excellence and also use the stadium for finals and showpiece events etc.

(Fag packet solution).

Not many clubs in SL have the money to focus on second team and youth set up. The teams that do have long standing set ups like Wigan. Many youngsters are looking for clubs. It many means a couple of years in the wilderness with a low budget first team squad and missing the top 4.

But if the club are open with the fans and give these youngsters a chance who is to say the fans will not buy in the fans need to consider if they support the club through think and thin or are just in it for the glory. We are nearly in 2017 and the here and the now is what it is. Past counts for nothing and there fix will be slow but rewarding.

Not sure I understand what you're saying in that post sorry.

The solution of the RFL making Odsal the Wembley of the North, playing all finals there and moving HQ, actually has some substance IMHO

With a multistorey car park and train station (prefererably linked to the fabled HS2) built on the site of Richard Dunne's and a "Wembley Way" linking across Rooley lane into the stadium. Jobs a good 'un

Why all the hate for people who use the ''cut cloth accordingly'' line? I get that it's overused and tiresome, but is it not the reason bradford are once again in a mess? Because of not cutting the cloth accordingly? (dives for cover)

Is the badford club a viable entity in it's current guise? Because different people keep taking over and it's the same result every time.

Well, anyone who thinks about it for a moment will say that the fans will not buy in.

You sound just like any idiot chairman, pontificating to the fans what they need to do if they are "true supporters". You forget that this is the 21st century and people apart from a (variable but small) hardcore couldn't give a flying fart about pleas and entreaties or appeals to their conscience.

Your post reminds me of the trolls who were on here back in the day when we'd get a 20K+ crowd claiming we were all "gloryhunters". It was bollox then and it is now, the crowd was just people who thought it was worth paying the admission, if yes, they paid, and if no, they don't. You can call them gloryhunters, or wildebeest, or pomegranates, it makes no difference. They pay if they want, they don't fancy it, they keep their money in their pocket.

In 21c terms the Bulls have a relatively big potential fanbase (as has been proved) but they will only come and pay if they choose to. Not if someone gives 'ema jolly good tickng off. Not if someone appeals to their conscience. Only about 3000 or so have even been interested in "relatively thin", and if we fall even further from grace into C1 then that number will at least halve. If we start from scratch it may be even worse.

I am almost as hardcore Northern/Bulls as they come so I can offer you an insight. At the moment I will take some persuading. If my club is effectively dead then I have no appetite for some back-street part-time semi-amateur operation, even if masquerading under our proud name. there are plenty of existing clubs in the area that do just that and i can get my fix of grass roots there.

Secondly, as I have been saying for a long time, if the Bulls fall to the bottom - as may be favourite now, unless Santa is real - there will be no way back for The Club Formerly Known As Bradford. We had a brief window to try to regain SL but failed. If you think any club can start from scratch and aim for SL without a wealthy backer then you really are in dreamland.

And, no club that cuts its proverbial cloth will ever succeed. There is always a prerequisite of a wealthy backer to push things along. Those who think you can make a club run as a business and be at the top, self-sustaining, are equally deluded.

The point which clothcutters somehow miss is that the fans will never settle for just the cloth you have. In order to progress, you need to buy in much moire cloth than you have. We did, last year and this. If it had worked, then we'd get the return of SL and so would remain for the time being solvent but then you have created a whole new cloth requirement and won't succeed in SL without funding yet more cloth acquisition.

If you fail, though, that's the problem. WE COULD NEVER have got to SL clothcutting, we set our stall out, and effectively bet the ranch. To get to SL you have to pay more than can possibly be justified for a Championship side. You can't guarantee promotion though, but you CAN guarantee that if you cut your cloth based on where you are, then you can forget all about that chance of promotion. THAT is the is the very simple and inescapable fact.

Anything is viable with enough cloth.

Omar Khan for instance found he'd been given a suit to make with only enough cloth for a thong because the other SL clubs had voted to take his cloth away and used it for cravats for themselves.

If we do get saved and a new decent owner is appointed I would be chuffed. I think we could stand a 6-12 point reduction in this league and avoid relegation. It does seem unfair that the reduction is only punishing the new owners, players and long suffering staff but if that's the rule, so be it. Whilst dealing out these deductions and fines I think the RFL must take some responsibility for the approval of past owners, Khan, Green and all who have all shown not to be the appropriate people to own and run the club even though sanctioned by the RFL.