Sometimes teams get a role on and become unstoppable. The defeat by Wigan in the play offs, the win at Halifax in 97 come to mind.

But the last 20 mins yesterday were grim. The contrast in enthusiasm, urgency and self belief from the first 20mins was scary. Once Widnes had taken a 4 point lead we never for a single second looked like mounting a response. It really did look like the team had completely lost hope of winning the game.

That was not the point I was making. Again, as you well know.

Is that not during the season then?

What is wrong with the organisation then?

Anyone think Cummins has lost the dressing room? We look like a ragbag of a team, unsettled and lacking direction.

We really needed play off money and extra income from an extended cup run, neither of which have been delivered.

Scratchy head time for Omar and Gerry I think.

The team looks really low on confidence to me and I think that's down to many reasons. From the top down everyone's responsible. Although there are valid reasons why we're not doing as well this season there are certainly things we could be doing better.

I don't think wholesale changes to the coaching staff or playing staff will make much difference or even be possible in the current climate. I think we need to manage expectations a little bit too but at the same time not let that be an excuse for being as disappointing as we were in the last 30mins yesterday.

Tbf I don't recall the club putting it forward as an excuse. It is a fact, and a bloody great massive fact. But just a fact.


Agreed, or well, the basics, we seem to have spells where as a team we forget the basics. Like yesterday, first half, we did loads of great basics, and some very good rugby, but it was al for nothing, and won't be remembered by anyone, as it was all squandered.


Agreed.

In fairness I was not referring to the club using it as an excuse. I was referring to plenty of people on here.

The constant carping and complaining about the coach and the player’s performance must be having a negative effect on them.
It’s not helping to have every decision questioned, nitpicked at, then come up with the answer - we need more “imported” “tent” players.
I find it disheartening that “fans” of the Bulls on this website are not more supportive of the team.
We all need to pull together, generate a more positive attitude.
Kicking somebody when they are down does not help them get up.

Aw bless.

I have said it many times before. Sportsmen in all areas are only too willing to take the praise and adulation when things are going well. Therefore it goes without saying that they should expect to take stick when things are going wrong.

If they cannot do this then they are in the wrong job.

The results recently have been pi$$ poor and people have a right to vent their feelings. Are we just supposed to keep clapping along pleasantly and show an air of being happy with underperforming players and crap performances.

Don't be so silly.

They are big lads, I am sure they can handle it.

I think there's a time and a place for giving the team stick and I think some (not all) of the players deserved it after yesterday's second half. They deserved it after losing to London in the cup too.

There have been other games we've lost where criticism has been less deserved. Also when we've won there have been games when some of us perhaps could be more supportive but it's fact that message boards get more traffic when times are bad. I guess that's human nature.

I had a feeling at half time our lead wouldn't be enough. I knew that with the wind at their backs, Widnes would have the advantage. One of the differences yesterday was that Widnes, more specifically Kevin Brown, used the wind to their advantage in the second half. In contrast, we didn't use the wind at all in the first half. Brown split Kearney and Kear on many occasions with his kicks and by the time our forwards got back it was tackle three, forcing us to kick into the wind. Widnes were starting sets on the half way line. I think one of our last tackles went to Purtell, god knows why.

Secondly, Widnes' attack was far superior, obviously, as reflected in the scoreline. Their left edge is their attacking strength, our right edge is our defensive weakness. The likes of Brown and Hanbury tore through us.

Thirdly, well played to Ah Van, who took both of his tries very well.

I am very disappointed that we lost the game from the position we were in but clearly Widnes just wanted the two points more than us. Donaldson was our best player. Lulia showed he is better than Purtell and in my opinion will be missed next season. Addy didn't exactly prove why he should receive an improved contract either.

I had a similar feeling at half time but I thought we kicked alright in the first 30mins as it took that long for Widnes to get in our half. Unfortunately we conceded a try the first time our line was put under pressure and the Marsh try with 20seconds to go until half time was just typical of what we've come to expect recently. Against the top teams one can make some allowances but we showed a worrying and predictable lack of toughness in that situation yesterday.

Second half Widnes kept us pinned back and kicked very well but again we did enough to win leading 28-16 at one point. Unfortunately we then lapsed into silling mistakes and needless ill discipline. Once they got within 4 points then end had an inevitability about it.

I thought Donaldson did well and didn't deserve to come off as he looked quite fresh. Lulia looked good in defence but was less impressive in attack. As you rightly say we'll miss his defence next year. Our right side defence was pants as it has been a lot this year. Too often we seemed short handed on that side with big gaps between centre and second row. Sometimes Gale was there sometimes not. We were really slow sliding in that direction and IIRC all our tries were conceded down that side.

Yes, all of their tries were scored to the left hand side of the posts, so our right side.

I've also managed to convince myself that one of their conversions on the left touchline missed. But I'm probably wrong, and it didn't affect the result.

Three tries conceded down our right hand side from sets on our 22. Two scored by a and one by their winger.
All from the same move.
We were simply outnumbered 3 times.
FFS this is basic lack of covering

it is; we often concede tries when we are not stretched, when we are not knackered, but when opponents just stroll through huge gaping holes in the line, unopposed. This goes on regularly. It isn't always the right side either, though that is the worst.

Right side has been a problem for a number of years now, back since the Tupou days and whoever was his centre, Sykes I believe. It really needs shoring up, can probably get by with Kear on the wing, but we really need a centre that knows how to defend out there. Move Langley back there and we'll be half way to sorting it out. Unforutunatley we are going to have to look to sign two centres this season, because Purtell, Blythe don't look all that up to it and Lulia is leaving. Some serious gaps to fill in for Franny, but I believe he can do it over time.

Agree with Eddie, Kearney isn't all that and hopefully this youngster can stake his claim over the net few seasons.

Edit, I didn't mean Langley to centre and I meant to add we need a good backrower out there that can marshall those outside him whilst defending. Elliot wasn't up to this, Langley would be.

In terms of criticising players for their defensive efforts, is anyone seriously suggesting that any of those responsible for the defensive debacles against Widnes would be hurt to read those inexcusable failures being criticised?

Really?

The truth is they very well know it was an utter defensive shambles (and sadly by no means for the first time) - people are only pointing out the obvious and given the last few seasons we have endured, and paid, and supported (and continue to) it hardly seems unreasonable.

I said from the off under the new regime that I anticipated a rebuilding process over several years, I did not expect any quick fix. But I fear the way things are going at the moment, the walls are still falling down. They really do need to do something to shore up what remains pretty damn quick.

In a perverse way, our upcoming fixtures are a blessing. We have a breathing space. We are only expected to get flogged, and so the results of these games don't actually matter. And, if there is anybody there who is capable of putting in place a better defensive system, and if there are players there who are prepared to bust a gut to play that system, then they have a couple of stern tests to practice that system.

Its as if they learned nothing from playing them earlier in the year, same situation, well up at HT then throw it away seems to be always the case.

We just cant kill game off, then we defend like a bunch of 10 yr olds and the oppo walk in tries or we gift it to them by doing something daft.

Would Donno not fit as a centre, good hands and decent defender he can also be deceptively quick then move Langley to LF???

Langley back to LF allows him to roam a little, so he could cover the right side, along with Donno, before the .

If we have enough props fit, I would have Langley back at Loose. He's trying hard through the middle, but he's not a natural prop. I don't think he's quick enough, or has any 'guile' for a second row.

I actually meant Langley back to SR, not centre my bad. Wouldn't play Donno in centre.

Good had me confused wouldn't want to see Langley at centre

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We are desperate for a winger with speed, we are really lacking the closest player to catching Paddy when he broke was Scruton, WTF that shouldn't be happening, most of the others just couldn't be bothered chasing back.

Say what you want about Ainscough, he was lighting fast and he had a great heart, with him gone this season the heart we showed last year seems to have gone also, im not saying these are hand in hand but begs a question.

Pretty much agreed, but other way round. Don't think Langers has the mobility to play at Loose any more, where as Donno does. Think he's still capable of punching holes out wide though and fit enough for up and down stuff. Think a centre that can defend is the biggest leak we have to fix though.

I can live with that also