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| Quote ="DILLIGAF"The way it's been heading the last few years, I wouldn't be shocked if someone told me Gary Glitter &=#FF0000 Rose West were part of the consortium.'"
League Express are saying Rose is denying this as she's better off where she is. |
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| Quote ="DILLIGAF"The way it's been heading the last few years, I wouldn't be shocked if someone told me that Gary Glitter was part of the Wood / Sawyer consortium.'"
Maybe so, but remember that all that glitters may not necessarily be gold.
That said, some allegedly corrupt folk don't care less about the glitter, all they appear to care about is the pot of gold at the end of Stadium Road. |
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| Quote ="nestegg"Maybe so, but remember that all that glitters may not necessarily be gold.
That said, some allegedly corrupt folk don't care less about the glitter, all they appear to care about is the pot of gold at the end of Stadium Road.'"
As the said pot of gold is the land and surrounds that it is known as Odsal belongs to BMDC its going to be iron pyrites, unless you're now saying the Council will be up for selling the land?? |
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| Quote ="Blotto"As the said pot of gold is [ithe land and surrounds that it is known as Odsa[/il belongs to BMDC its going to be iron pyrites, unless you're now saying the Council will be up for selling the land??'"
Yes of course Blotto, the freeholder is BMDC, but for several reasons that fact currently has little bearing on our hypothesis re the RFL owned head lease.
If you read the 'Odsal stadium' head lease we are advised that it paints a different picture, AND more importantly a potential money making opportunity for the RFL [iet al[/i. Of course it is conceivable that our advisor in this regard may be mistaken.
As per usual, we don't wish to say more due to legal reasons. |
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So now your hinting that for the RFL to purchase the lease the Council sweetened the deal by allowing more flexibility than previously? Probably in the knowledge that there are several mechanisms at Local and Government level that would stall any redevelopments outside the Stadium use! l wouldn't worry too much about it!
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Yet more if's than buts, innuendos and supposition, as opposed to evidence supported commentary.I want to believe, but too much 'can't tell won't tell' is not best serving any informative purpose mate.
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| Quote ="Blotto"So now your hinting that for the RFL to purchase the lease the Council sweetened the deal by allowing more flexibility than previously? Probably in the knowledge that there are several mechanisms at Local and Government level that would stall any redevelopments outside the Stadium use! l wouldn't worry too much about it!'"
In part agree. Sport England and the BMDC's recently revised playing fields strategy being just two examples thereof. But money (or the potential thereof) can often talk, and has on occasions been known to overcome even the most stubborn of obstacles, inc statutory obstacles.
NW is well connected etc.
We may of course be mistaken. Happy to discuss further.
=#000080Respect to the fallen. |
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| It's the final week for Dickie Dunns. I expect things to accelerate somewhat before Christmas as the bulldozers move in  |
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| Quote ="Scarey71"It's the final week for Dickie Dunns. I expect things to acceperate somewhat before Christmas as the bulldozers move in
'"
It's a shame as it's not likely, but the Richard Dunns site would be perfect for a community stadium |
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| Quote ="roofaldo2"It's a shame as it's not likely, but the Richard Dunns site would be perfect for a community stadium'"
True  |
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Full list of shareholders for bbbbb ltd now available.
Shareholding 1 200 ORDINARY shares held as at the date of this confirmation statement
Name: KIMBERLEY STATHER
Shareholding 2: 249 ORDINARY shares held as at the date of this confirmation statement
Name: MARK SAWYER
Shareholding 3: 81 ORDINARY shares held as at the date of this confirmation statement
Name: MICHAEL SAWYER
Shareholding 4: 150 ORDINARY shares held as at the date of this confirmation statement
Name: Sue Allen
Shareholding 5: 100 ORDINARY shares held as at the date of this confirmation statement
Name: HELENA SMITH
Shareholding 6: 50 ORDINARY shares held as at the date of this confirmation statement
Name: SANDRA WOOD
Shareholding 7: 50 ORDINARY shares held as at the date of this confirmation statement
Name: STEVEN WOOD
Shareholding 8: 50 ORDINARY shares held as at the date of this confirmation statement
Name: WENDY WOOD
Shareholding 9: 50 ORDINARY shares held as at the date of this confirmation statement
Name: NIGEL WOOD
Shareholding 10 20 ORDINARY shares held as at the date of this confirmation statement
Name: ADAM FOGERTY
Confirmation Statement
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Does anyone who knows about these things want to explain to us laypersons what all of that stuff in the post above actually means for the club?
Who are all those people, and what does it mean for the club for them to be the shareholders?
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Bulls inviting fans to submit questions and have answered a list below. Nothing really that we didn't really know before, but I think they are trying. But as others have said, me included, only actions will convince me and even then, it will be years before I'm convinced. Having said that I do applaud them for paying off creditors which we haven't had in the past.
BRADFORD BULLS ARE PLEASED TO ANNOUNCE THAT WE ARE LAUNCHING A NEW INTERACTIVE SERVICE “ASK THE BULLS” WHERE SUPPORTERS CAN SUBMIT QUESTIONS ON ANY TOPIC.
The club will answer everything it can within the bounds of confidentiality or commercial sensitivity.
The club will prioritise responding to enquiries from current season ticket holders and active current sponsors.
The club will not answer rude, disrespectful or libellous questions.
Chairman Eric Perez states “I have to admit disappointed by some of the speculative commentary about our club on Social Media. Some of the stuff I’ve read is putting off good people from getting involved through comments that have no foundation. That is why we have decided therefore to take the initiative and start an “Ask the Bulls” service for our supporters to get answers direct from the club and cut through some of this nonsense. We commit to answering everything we reasonably can within 3 working days hopefully quicker, subject to volume. Where questions are similar in nature or basically on the same topic, a single answer will be provided to a group of similar questions. Season ticket holders and sponsors are invited to submit any questions they have to askthebulls@bradfordbulls.co.uk.
Frequently Asked Questions
Who actually own the Bulls?
A group of people, own a company called BBBBB Ltd (which stands for Bringing Bradford Bulls Back to Bradford) which in turn owns Bulls 2017 Ltd. The club was previously owned by a company called Orcas’ Limited which was owned by Mr & Mrs Chalmers. Clearly a company had to be created to take over Orcas Ltd. position.
And who owns BBBBB Ltd.?
A number of people – As has been reported Mark Sawyer personally owns 24.9%. The Wood extended family owns 33% and number of shares are being held for potential future investors. The original consortium was three groups. One party decided not to proceed for their own reasons and the other two parties did.
Is Nigel Wood the majority shareholder?
No – He and his wife have agreed to own 10%. He was asked by others to help save the club and he did. He has used his network of contacts around the sport and around the city to build a coalition of the willing, to rescue the Bulls.
Is Nigel Wood a Director?
No – Nigel has a very demanding full-time world job, which means he is not able to commit the time and energy required to be a Director of the club. He has agreed to provide advice and assistance where he can and will continue to support the team when he is actually in this country.
Who are the Directors?
Currently Mark Kilgallon and Sandra Wood, but these two will be joined by others as the position becomes clearer and more stable. The intention is to build a group of competency-based Directors over time as the size of the project becomes better understood.
Have the RFL appointed any Directors?
No – but we have invited the RFL to appoint an Observer if they so wish to see that the club is being run according to the undertakings given to get out of Special Measures.
What is Eric Perez’s role?
Eric is an experienced RL Administrator with a proven track record and was asked to take an Interim Chairman role to assist the club. Because his appointment was relatively short notice he had to travel back to Canada but he is now back in Bradford. The current agreement for his involvement is until February 2020.
When will the club appoint a CEO?
When the position is more stable, hopefully early in the new year.
Will it be Nigel Wood?
No
Is Andrew Chalmers intending to hold any shares in the BBBBB Ltd.?
No
Why does Andrew Chalmers still appear as a Director of Bulls 2017 Ltd?
Because he has some administrative tasks to finish in order to complete the handover. He will resign as a Director immediately after they are completed.
Are the creditors being paid off?
Yes - that is the hope and the expectation. The consortium were of the firm view that the club could not survive yet another Administration, and have resolved to clear the old company debt as quickly as they practically can. No one should underestimate the size and scale of this commitment by the members of the consortium.
What are the club’s priorities?
To stabilise the club’s finances, to provide the best quality team possible and to begin work on Bringing the Bulls Back to Bradford.
Does that mean back to Odsal?
Nothing has been ruled in or ruled out. Clearly Odsal is a very important alternative but the terms of occupancy have to be affordable and sustainable.
Who owns Odsal?
The RFL
What if the RFL chose to sell it?
That would be their prerogative, but we understand the RFL would prefer to see Odsal used to provide professional Rugby League with a suitable 21st century home in one of their most important centres.
If they chose to sell it, who would get the sale proceeds?
The RFL.
Are the supporters and businesses rallying round?
On the whole yes. We have been overwhelmed by some offers, gestures and voices of support. We recognise that we will be unable to persuade some people but we cannot spend all of our time dealing with those who have no intention of supporting the club moving forward. The only way to prove that there is no ulterior motive, is by proof of actions, over the passage of time. There will always be people who choose not to believe, so be it; the consortium are very, very happy to commit that none of the shareholders are seeking personal gain from this rescue…nor incidentally do they want to lose vast amounts of money.
Is it true some people have been put off investing?
Yes, unfortunately. Some people have looked at some of the social media around the club and have been put off by some of the non-factual reporting in some quarters. It is a real shame, some people who claim to care for the club are actually damaging it.
To submit your question to be answered by the club, email info@bradfordbulls.co.uk |
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Bulls inviting fans to submit questions and have answered a list below. Nothing really that we didn't really know before, but I think they are trying. But as others have said, me included, only actions will convince me and even then, it will be years before I'm convinced. Having said that I do applaud them for paying off creditors which we haven't had in the past.
BRADFORD BULLS ARE PLEASED TO ANNOUNCE THAT WE ARE LAUNCHING A NEW INTERACTIVE SERVICE “ASK THE BULLS” WHERE SUPPORTERS CAN SUBMIT QUESTIONS ON ANY TOPIC.
The club will answer everything it can within the bounds of confidentiality or commercial sensitivity.
The club will prioritise responding to enquiries from current season ticket holders and active current sponsors.
The club will not answer rude, disrespectful or libellous questions.
Chairman Eric Perez states “I have to admit disappointed by some of the speculative commentary about our club on Social Media. Some of the stuff I’ve read is putting off good people from getting involved through comments that have no foundation. That is why we have decided therefore to take the initiative and start an “Ask the Bulls” service for our supporters to get answers direct from the club and cut through some of this nonsense. We commit to answering everything we reasonably can within 3 working days hopefully quicker, subject to volume. Where questions are similar in nature or basically on the same topic, a single answer will be provided to a group of similar questions. Season ticket holders and sponsors are invited to submit any questions they have to askthebulls@bradfordbulls.co.uk.
Frequently Asked Questions
Who actually own the Bulls?
A group of people, own a company called BBBBB Ltd (which stands for Bringing Bradford Bulls Back to Bradford) which in turn owns Bulls 2017 Ltd. The club was previously owned by a company called Orcas’ Limited which was owned by Mr & Mrs Chalmers. Clearly a company had to be created to take over Orcas Ltd. position.
And who owns BBBBB Ltd.?
A number of people – As has been reported Mark Sawyer personally owns 24.9%. The Wood extended family owns 33% and number of shares are being held for potential future investors. The original consortium was three groups. One party decided not to proceed for their own reasons and the other two parties did.
Is Nigel Wood the majority shareholder?
No – He and his wife have agreed to own 10%. He was asked by others to help save the club and he did. He has used his network of contacts around the sport and around the city to build a coalition of the willing, to rescue the Bulls.
Is Nigel Wood a Director?
No – Nigel has a very demanding full-time world job, which means he is not able to commit the time and energy required to be a Director of the club. He has agreed to provide advice and assistance where he can and will continue to support the team when he is actually in this country.
Who are the Directors?
Currently Mark Kilgallon and Sandra Wood, but these two will be joined by others as the position becomes clearer and more stable. The intention is to build a group of competency-based Directors over time as the size of the project becomes better understood.
Have the RFL appointed any Directors?
No – but we have invited the RFL to appoint an Observer if they so wish to see that the club is being run according to the undertakings given to get out of Special Measures.
What is Eric Perez’s role?
Eric is an experienced RL Administrator with a proven track record and was asked to take an Interim Chairman role to assist the club. Because his appointment was relatively short notice he had to travel back to Canada but he is now back in Bradford. The current agreement for his involvement is until February 2020.
When will the club appoint a CEO?
When the position is more stable, hopefully early in the new year.
Will it be Nigel Wood?
No
Is Andrew Chalmers intending to hold any shares in the BBBBB Ltd.?
No
Why does Andrew Chalmers still appear as a Director of Bulls 2017 Ltd?
Because he has some administrative tasks to finish in order to complete the handover. He will resign as a Director immediately after they are completed.
Are the creditors being paid off?
Yes - that is the hope and the expectation. The consortium were of the firm view that the club could not survive yet another Administration, and have resolved to clear the old company debt as quickly as they practically can. No one should underestimate the size and scale of this commitment by the members of the consortium.
What are the club’s priorities?
To stabilise the club’s finances, to provide the best quality team possible and to begin work on Bringing the Bulls Back to Bradford.
Does that mean back to Odsal?
Nothing has been ruled in or ruled out. Clearly Odsal is a very important alternative but the terms of occupancy have to be affordable and sustainable.
Who owns Odsal?
The RFL
What if the RFL chose to sell it?
That would be their prerogative, but we understand the RFL would prefer to see Odsal used to provide professional Rugby League with a suitable 21st century home in one of their most important centres.
If they chose to sell it, who would get the sale proceeds?
The RFL.
Are the supporters and businesses rallying round?
On the whole yes. We have been overwhelmed by some offers, gestures and voices of support. We recognise that we will be unable to persuade some people but we cannot spend all of our time dealing with those who have no intention of supporting the club moving forward. The only way to prove that there is no ulterior motive, is by proof of actions, over the passage of time. There will always be people who choose not to believe, so be it; the consortium are very, very happy to commit that none of the shareholders are seeking personal gain from this rescue…nor incidentally do they want to lose vast amounts of money.
Is it true some people have been put off investing?
Yes, unfortunately. Some people have looked at some of the social media around the club and have been put off by some of the non-factual reporting in some quarters. It is a real shame, some people who claim to care for the club are actually damaging it.
To submit your question to be answered by the club, email info@bradfordbulls.co.uk | |
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Only the Bulls could get the stadium ownership situation wrong.
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Good idea from Club but for goodness sake CHECK your facts before publishing. Even a casual fan knows BMDC own Odsal and only they can sell it.
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[iWho actually own the Bulls?
A group of people, own a company called BBBBB Ltd (which stands for Bringing Bradford Bulls Back to Bradford) which in turn owns Bulls 2017 Ltd. The club was previously owned by a company called Orcas’ Limited which was owned by Mr & Mrs Chalmers. Clearly a company had to be created to take over Orcas Ltd. position.[/i
I'm pretty sure that is not actually true and the shares could have been transferred to individuals. Quite possibly cheaper though as only one transfer to process.
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What I take from that, especially in the last response, is that it's pretty much the fault of the fans.
I'm sure that we should unquestioningly accept this new set of strangers who promise us the same 'stability' and 'within our means' again, just like the last lot and the lot before that. I've seen no incentive as to why I should renew my season ticket yet. In fact by selling/ridding players who are fan favourites actually does the opposite, and not only for me too I'm sure.
Let's see the £1 million that they have, in the hands of the RFL, to ensure that they have the means to take the club forward, and not just skin us poor fans again and asset strip the club (again).
Just incredible.
Edit: And if they try the whole emotional blackmail with me ("without us, you won't have a club, that's why you should support the club"icon_wink.gif after all we have been through, that is me completely done with the sport. Hell, I'm teetering on the edge of that now anyway....
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| Quote ="tackler thommo"Good idea from Club but for goodness sake CHECK your facts before publishing. Even a casual fan knows BMDC own Odsal and only they can sell it.'"
That same thought occurred to me while I was reading it, although I confess I've never been totally clear on the situation so assumed I was reading it wrong or I'd understood it wrong in the first place.
I also notice the shareholder figures don't seem to tally up necessarily with the list of shareholders listed on this thread, although again that may be me misunderstanding something rather than inaccuracy.
I will say, if everything in that statement is taken at face value, one line I do like. "The only way to prove that there is no ulterior motive, is by proof of actions, over the passage of time.". That is absolutely correct and I hope they are genuine in understanding that. It does seem a little contradictory to then criticise people too, but I suppose they're just trying to do what they can to stop people being negative online, since I don't doubt it won't be helping with tickets sales and sponsorship. Unfortunately though, that's the inevitable truth of the damage the last few years has caused rather than fans just being negative for the sake of it.
I hope someone there does understand that the lack of trust and the negativity is something that isn't going away yet. There's too much damage been done for it to just disappear. There will be plenty like myself who need to see plenty of action before they're going to start coming around, and even then they're going to be tentative about letting themselves get emotionally invested again. |
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I agree with pretty much all of what Dilligraf says in the post above, and Friday's post above that one as well.
It's true that the 'proof of the pudding will be in the eating' as they rightly observe. It's going to take some while to get a lot of the fans on board again. I'm one who will take some convincing.
But I really don't think it helps in any way to sign off by being negative about what fans are writing on social media (which I assume includes this forum). After everything we've all been through, you really can't blame people for being cynical, and it would be good to have some recognition of that.
Instead, we basically have them saying that the fans are to blame for some people not investing! It's nothing more than guilt-tripping, and achieves nothing really, especially when they are trying to sell season tickets to those same people!
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Well I guess the idea is ok if there are people who feel they need answers before committing to a season ticket or whatever. To be honest they could buy half the Australian international team and I still wouldn't buy a season ticket. Neither the club or RL in general is that important to me anymore that I would commit so much of my free time and money to it again. However as I've said before, if there is still a Bradford Bulls in Feb that has a side worth watching then I'll most probably get to some games at Dewsbury. The rights or wrongs of the off field shenanigans I'm sort of past caring about though it's clearly important to some and that's fair enough.
I've just found it's a lot easier to just see it as sort of transactional ie is the afternoons entertainment worth my brass.
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In a different context admittedly but there is a poem by Phillip Larkin which has the lines; "Man hands on misery to man, It builds like a coastal shelf" - and this is very true.
Our misery has built 'like a coastal shelf' over the last three or four owners, rather than our 'mums and dads' as in Phillips' poem, but the truth remains. It becomes ingrained. We find it hard to trust owners when one by one they let us down. Trust is hard earned and easily lost.
So, we have new owners, well whoopee, hot digity dog, but now you now have to earn our trust. It can't, and won't, just be given. Four times bitten - how may times shy?
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| Quote ="Bulliac"In a different context admittedly but there is a poem by Phillip Larkin which has the lines; "Man hands on misery to man, It builds like a coastal shelf" - and this is very true.
Our misery has built 'like a coastal shelf' over the last three or four owners, rather than our 'mums and dads' as in Phillips' poem, but the truth remains. It becomes ingrained. We find it hard to trust owners when one by one they let us down. Trust is hard earned and easily lost.
So, we have new owners, well whoopee, hot digity dog, but now you now have to earn our trust. It can't, and won't, just be given. Four times bitten - how may times shy?'"
^ this |
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| By God I have reached the point of chucking the towel in with the club just like a good numbers of members on here. May I also say things that have happened since 2012 on the surface seem to little Fishy
and some questions need to be answered and may well be in the fullness of time . Before I get jumped on no I'm not being blindly Lead or wearing rose tinted specs I am calling as i see it imo
Since 2012 who have we had in the senior management team who had any experience in the uk rugby league club management . Only one i can think of was MR S Ferris who came with a reputation of doing more harm than good to his previous clubs ! RHP was Ceo at one point but his training from what I believe is in commercial marketing and not sports club management administration etc.
Look what we now have Eric P ,Mark S, The Batley owner who's name i cant recall and Nigel W All who have experience of building clubs from the ground up and proven track records
All of their experience and knowledge will be being drawn against to resolve the clubs issues and put tried and tested procedures, practices and governance in place to run the club going forward.I feel we can say for certain that the days of the back of a fag packet accounting and trying to hoodwink the tax man by changing season tickets to memberships have gone.
Look what has been done so far:
Identified debts as best as humanly possible
Sold players off  But the debts have to be payed , Paid Pension Debt , Paid largest creditor off , and got Andrew charmers to write off his business loans
Negotiated with Bradford council the change of rates so that the Odsal shop / office can be used without having to pay rates on the full stadium
On going meetings with council re returning to Bradford
Finally the bit we all want to see is started the recruitment for next year.
Don't forget all of the gents above have reputations in the game itself to up keep its a lot bigger risk for them than it is for any of us even though it may not feel like it is with the amount of money time an emotion we have put into the club of the last decade
All Ways Look On the Bright Side of Life COYB :  |
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| Quote ="Fr13daY".
Let's see the £1 million that they have, in the hands of the RFL, to ensure that they have the means to take the club forward, and not just skin us poor fans again and asset strip the club (again).
'"
What £1 million do you speak of? |
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| Quote ="Bulls4Champs"What £1 million do you speak of?'"
Finger in the air figure mate. But looking at expenses and debts I don't think it's far wrong.
When the RFL threw open the bidding during our last spell in administration, one of the 'hard and fast' stipulations ([urlhttps://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jan/05/new-bradford-bulls-owners-have-to-make-three-year-fixture-pledge[/url) that the RFL stated was that there should be evidence of funds available to ensure that the club was in safe hands. This was waived for Mr. Chalmers bid, however. For some reason.....
And look what a debt-accruing, player-losing, pension-payment-dodging, st0rm THAT resulted in!
I hope that the RFL have verified that our new masters have enough capital to ensure that we're not doomed to another catastrophy sometime soon, by abiding by their stipulations from last time and asking for a bond to be placed with them to guarantee a stable financial foundation for the club.
I'm not holding my breath though. |
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But the debts have to be payed , Paid Pension Debt , Paid largest creditor off , and got Andrew charmers to write off his business loans 
