Oh dear. 20 minutes in, and Wigan have realised they have Gelling and Manfredi against Dawson and Owens. Put your pints down lads, this is all over.

Another utterly useless defensive display on the flanks. Another utterly clueless offensive display all over the park. This could be a 40 point margin if Wigan don't switch off.

This is the worst Saints team of the super league era.

Pathetic attempt by Luke Walsh to tackle Tompkins for that try. Let his team mates down there, totally bottled it. Sick of having to carry him defensively. Fages is much smaller and puts himself about much more.

This'll be a harsh view, but the reason we're so poor is Lomax. He's a huge slice of our salary cap, and we've had no value out of him now for two years. The result is we're having to roll with sub-standard lower-league players like Thompson, Richards, Dawson, McDonnell.

Every one of our backs is worse than every one of Wigan's. Yet we're spending the same cash. We need to be ruthless now with Lomax. Either he's going to play, or he needs to go.

Re:the "rip". We're now relying on sympathy calls from the video ref to keep us in the game.

Walsh to blame for 2 try's now. Get rid. Stealing a living.

Pedestrian pace, no urgency to play the ball. Forwards lumbering forward. Walsh offers very little, and delivers very slow passes that give little opportunity for the receiver to attack the line at pace. You can see the difference with Fages who actually offers a threat. The ball never once moved beyond the centres, depriving the wings of a chance.

The defence was awful.

It's just a pour team and it's badly coached. To many players been brought in that just ain't saints standard. Me and few others on here predicted our last "transition" of bringing in poor players would set us back years and then Brown changed it round.

I'm pretty sure we now are back to the Potter/Simmons days and it's going to take money and years to get us anywhere near another final.

Never seen such weak backs, and so many of the forwards no better, there is no speed, only tactic in the book is kick in the air to the corner flag

We looked more like a pub team today and got mauled by the Wigoons, great defensive display by them and should have had 40 points on the board. Felt like walking out at half time, this team is so badly coached with no rugby brains at all, worse team I've ever seen in my lifetime, can't see me lasting any more games longer with this rubbish served up.

Pedestrian is a good description of the St Helens performance. There didn't seem to be any urgency from your lot. It was far to easy for us to slow you down with no effort to get up and play the ball quickly. You had plenty ball in good positions but seemed to lack the craft and imagination to find a way through, part of that was down to a very good defensive display by us though. If I were a St Helens fan I'd be very unhappy with Walsh particularly for the Smith try. He was far to busy trying to claim an obstruction rather than put in the effort to make a tackle which he probably could have got too. Your only player who seemed up for it was LMS.

Totally agree.

Walsh's effort for Smith's try was a disgrace. We really are carrying him. It's like having 12 men in defence. Have a look at Walsh's attempt to tackle Tompkins , it lacked effort. He bottled both them tackles. With the ball he's frightened stiff of getting tackled. We need to drop him and have Walsh and Fages in the halves. I'm actually excited by Fages, he actually looks like a Saints player. I would build our team around him.

It's difficult to encapsulate everything wrong with that performance in a single post. Strangely enough, the first 10-15 minutes were quite encouraging. We mixed it and with Fages taking the ball to the line we looked capable of producing opportunities.

But as soon as Wigan started to get some good possession from our penalties and errors our defensive frailties became very clear. Watching our left edge defence I thought I'd taken a wrong turn and ended up at the circus. Between them Walsh, Dawson and Owens created an overlap for Wigan every time the ball went that way. Abysmal.

What was just as disappointing, though, was that as soon as that started happening our forwards seemed to decide they weren't interested anymore.

That's before we even get on to the attack. A classic moment that summed it up was when Wilkin stepped somebody and got into clear space ... then stopped and looked around for a defender to run at.

I'm still amazed at the score - how we played that badly and got away with a respectable scoreline is beyond me. It's a good job we were playing Wigan 2016 and not Wigan 2013.

Wigan played the basics and saints could not deal with it. thats was an absolute disgrace . The players,coach and the club as a whole should issue an apology for that. I was embarrassed to be wearing my red vee and I never said that in my life . Utter rubbish .

Said the same to my missus. Should have been a 40+ defeat that. They broke through our line so many times. Amor takes that pass near the end and it's a 6 point margin. I don't think Wane will be happy with that.

Wigan changed the game plan after 20 mins, with Burns playing at 9 they seemed to fancy playing up the middle, when Roby came on they decided to play more out on the edges realising in the process there were a couple of turnstiles in Dawson and Owen.
I see KC is on another planet with his post match comment, when is he going to realise that playing OK for 20 mins in an 80 mins game is as much use as a chocolate teapot.

I thought we'd get beat today but I didn't account by for how inept Saints would be. That was pretty woeful and it was a good job Hicks put in one of the most one eyed halves of reffing I've seen in that second half or it could have got out of hand. We did what we've done all year, defended for our lives and scrapped enough points in attack.

We also did what we've done all year.

I'm not convinced we played well for the first 20. We played in front of of the Wigan defence and chucked a few moves about ,switching the ball like a school boy team who has just learnt a new move. From the Wigan perspective , it was very simple to defend against . All things are relative, and in relation to how we have been playing , it looked encouraging but in truth is was nothing more than average . I agree with you, Kieron is not ready to coach , the players are clearly unsettled and looking lost. I am a great believer that a good coach can stimulate even the most mediocre squad to perform and play basic rugby . Saints can't even do that . Kieron must go. God help us on Monday .

I have been chastised on here for criticising Walsh, it now looks like a few more have seen the light. He should be packed off home as soon as possible. Whoever is in charge of recruitment at Saints should have is contract terminated. the last few years have seen some of the worst signings of any super league team. I am now beginning to have grave doubts regarding Cunningham. As for the poster who is putting the blame on an injured player, well that is absolutely priceless.

Also I was in no doubt of today's result so I will not comment.

We were shocking today. Fortunately, so were Wigan. They must have made six or seven clean breaks in the second half and didn't score from any of them. They would have lost to most sides in SL with that performance today, they were just lucky they were playing us.

Today was another example of our awful, awful brand of rugby. Try to strangle the opposition to death with repeat sets and grind, grind, grind. We had so much pressure in the first half and the game was won when Wigan scored first, it was over. Had we scored during that spell of intense pressure we might have had a chance. Our defending once again was truly woeful throughout, Wigan scoring a few tries that had no place in professional RL. We can't defend our line and we won't win a big game this season.

In terms of individuals I thought SMD was okay. Makinson was Mr Average as always, Jack Owens is still a fat joker who has no place at the club. Dom Peyroux is still a clown and a joke signing, Matty Dawson is Matty Dawson and yet he's our best back this season by a country mile. What does that say about our squad? In the halves, I thought Theo played okay, he tried at least. But the decision to play him this week, when he couldn't be risked against the likes of Wakefield and Cas was just an absolute joke. If you are going to play him, FFS play him in the easier games first to get him ready. Walsh was the useless waste of a salary he always was, Tasi is still a powderpuff forward, despite having his best game for us. Amor was beaten, Roby average, Burns horrific. But to be fair to Burns we fell apart when Roby came on. LMS tried, which for this side is unsual, he's our most obvious leader, trying to gee them up when the heads were down all the time. Alex W was due a bad game for us and boy did he have one today, utter shocker from him. Jon Wilkin was very poor and is not a Captain in a million years, we've not had a Captain since Jammer left. His attempt to throw the ball at Frodo was perhaps his most telling contribution and being Jon Wilkin he naturally missed. Richards was still useless as he always is and apologies if I've missed anyone, they were obviously so anonymous I've forgotten who they are.

You need to get off that fence and say what you really think mate

Planet KC obviously saw a different match to the 18,000 who were there:


Kieran - we were never back in the game. We were just, to a man, pitifully awful. We are just a potentially mid table team which is being coached badly.

KC must have an eye sight problem, he reminds me of the specsavers advert with the vet and the "dead cat" thats not got a pulse.


We hit the magic =#BF004050 missed tackles mark yesterday, I think that is the worse record we,ve had in the defence department.

We made 26 tackle busts, but 2 wigan players in Manfredi and Gildart made the same amount between them. (Manfredi 19 busts).

I agree with most of that apart but SMD did ok ? He was dire! Them tackle attempts was like a 8yrs old kid who hasn't played rugby before. He's terrified of contact just as Quinlan was last year. If nobody makes a break then SMD might as well not play.

Nobody in the backs can Beat a man and we lack pace. The back 3 yesterday was awful and imo none are good enough. Peyroux started missing tackles now but agsin shocking with the ball. Dawson, well say no more really.

Fages did ok but KC dropped him in it from great height playing him yesterday. Luke Walsh is another that's terrified of contact.

Tasi isn't good enough, he can't break tackles, hes soft as a bag of s*it. Amor did ok and started with lower back injury so I can't see him playing Monday. Wilkin as he's been all year rubbish and another that doesn't like contact. Greenwood will be at leigh soon as he's just brittle, he's not up to the physical side of the game and not good enough. LMS did ok.

Richards isn't good enough and never will. Thomson had his worst game in a Saints shirt. Big Alex doesn't look happy. He's getting tackled easier this year and not hitting the heights of last year but still a very good player.