I do honestly believe the players need to take a very hard look at themselves. In all the big games apart from Huddersfield in the Cup we have been shocking. There has been no desire, no fight, no commitment. I do believe we generally have no leader on the park like a Sculthorpe, Joynt, Graham, Cunningham, Long or going as far back as Bobbie Goulding. Other clubs like Leeds/Wigan have at least a couple of leaders per club and lead from the front and we don't have that at our club. I don't see anyone giving the players the rounds of the kitchen behind the sticks when a soft try or any try has been conceded. It just comes across like its accepted and that's our standard which is truly unacceptable. When I played and I was the Skipper any try what was conceded through pathetic defence was addressed with a rollocking behind the sticks. There's no talking in the line of defence, there's no desire to get off the line and smash the opposition (legally of course). I hate Wigan just as much as the next man on this Saints forum but the way McIllorum lead from the front on Saturday was superb, alright he was lucky not to see red with his shot on Peacock but at least the desire and commitment was there...

We do have a talented group of players that I don't have any doubt in the back of my mind but they have become very very complacent after winning there first 9 or 10 games straight. Nathan Brown is going to have to address this asap otherwise he will be out the door and we will be in the same position as we were a couple of years ago when Mike Rush took over on a interim basis. I personally blame the players and partly Nathan Brown. Things have to change starting at Home against Huddersfield this week because we have a very tough run of fixtures coming up and if this continues Brown will be out the door. I sort of sensed this with McManus making his public announcement about performances not being up to scratch when they really need to be. I'm sure a couple of defeats in the next 3 or 4 games and McManus will pull the trigger. Don't get me wrong I'd love to see Nathan Brown succeed but I really fear for him at the same time.

Thoughts please???

Not many captains give rollicking these days. It's all about motivating players after a try or a player makes a mistake and leading from example.

Peacock admits he's not the most vocal of players but he's a leader. Same goes for SOL at Wigan.

We need more than a captain who gives a rollicking out, we need senior players to lead by example.

Wigan can afford to have a captain who doesn't give a rollicking on the field at the time as they have a coach who tears strips off the players at half time. You wouldn't want to be in his firing line if you put in a half d display

That is also the wrong way to run a team, players always fearing the screaming, shouting and abuse the coach will give them if they mess up. Saints have a great captain in Wellens I would just like to see him on the field for longer periods, I believe saints are a better team when he is on the field.

its not wrong, its just a different approach. Fergies 'hair dryer' didnt do united any harm did it

unfortunately there is no right or wrong way, if players are stuck in a comfort zone and not giving 100% they need a rocket. Players under perform and it is the coach that gets shipped out, he needs to make sure he has no slackers on the field.

In my opinion the attitude of some players is nothing a couple of weekends in Rochdale can't fix, but we seem reticent to do it.

You have to be a commanding figure.

I bet wane does not have to do the hairdryer treatment because the players know that he is strict from the outset.

Fear is a great motivator and if people know clearly what is expected then you don't have to lay into them as more often than not they live up to the expectations set.

The young forwards that come into the Wigan side know whats expected of them as Wane has transformed the culture of the club. He always talks about wanting hard tough men in his pack. The senior players such as O'Loughlin & McIllorum then lead from the front for Wane. We clearly lack a leader in the pack that we had in the past like Hooper, Cayless & then Graham. I recall ppl laughing when Wane brought in 4-5 "captains" as a leadership team but it's given ppl a responsibility & sense of motivation. Great coaching & gets every ounce off every player.

Whereas we don't make that a priority - as can be witnessed on the pitch - and so we get relative softies. I'm sure they are all nice blokes but not one of them comes across as anything like tough.

In which case it's likely to be Mike Rush and the coach who need a rocket, for recruiting/promoting characters who are nothing like James Graham, who should be the benchmark for forwards.

Clould this all come from McManus who wants family club and nobody that will bring anything negative to the club?


Possibly the softest pack I've seen in years. No real aggression. I used to love the days of us being fired up and really giving it out in defence. Not this team, it's just not there and I include Mose, Lms, laffranchi, walmsley in this.

The young lad Thompson runs like a train every time he gets the ball. If Mose and co could run with his purpose then we'd go ok.

I'm 100% certain that walmsley can't play as a starting prop, he's much more effective off the bench. I don't think he's up to playing big mins physically and mentally. Don't forget he's still young and only played one and half seasons in super league. We can't hammer him as potentially can be top class.

For the likes of Mose and Lms, they are just shocking! You could probably swap them for nearly every prop in super league and we'd have a better prop. IMHO we should do our best to cut these two. They are awful.

Can't really comment on laffranchi this year as he's not played much but if previous seasons are to go by then he's also another that doesn't cut it.

Wilkin is to lightweight, he offers nothing with the ball. He's not strong enough to break a tackle and not fast enough to run round anyone, unless he gets it put on a plate he's useless.

Sia is in awful form but a good player. Can't be to harsh on sia as he's carried the pack in recent seasons and same goes for robes.

I would assume the culture of the club originates with McManus although Mike Rush will have bought right into it given that he's been elevated to CEO and is in charge on a day by day basis as well as influential in recruitment and retention. And I know this because I read his interview in this month's Rugby League World. I'm not speculating.

Maybe it's time to ditch the "family friendly " way of things and get some mean streak into the team.

I think you need to credit Wigans previous coach Micheal Maguire for changing the culture of the club and introducing the leadership team.

Its true that Wane does not suffer fools but when it comes to discipline Maguire was something else.