I know RL has been going longer than SL. But just in terms of SL, I would say that this Leeds squad of players has to be pushing now for the greatest of SL so far.

They are the greatest team in super league era and I don't think anyone can argue with that ( step up Northampton saint).

Certainly one of the greats. To be fair though, it's benefitted a lot from a lack of competition the last few years - when the great Wigan sides of the '90s started to decline there were young, strong Saints and Bradford teams ready to come in and start taking their trophies off them instead. Similarly when our '06 team started to break up from '07 onwards Leeds were there ready with a great young team to nick a few SL titles off us that otherwise were ours for the taking. Now that Leeds' great side has been in similar decline for a few seasons now there just hasn't been that quality, hungry young side around who can take them on come the games that count. I think in years to come they will be recognised as the last truly great domestic RL club side.

Another stalker. Oh good.

It's hard to judge any team other than against it's contemporary competition and in that sense this Leeds team would make a good argument for greatest ever SL team. But realistically they wouldn't have stood much chance playing against Saints '96, '00 or '06 for instance...

Why do some Saints fans need to do this each year?

All that Leeds have been in the Superleague era, and then only latterly, is the play off experts. That's it really. They can't buy a challenge cup win and they've managed league leaders shield, what, three times? But they have won six grand finals, four of them against one team.

Let's not go overboard just because they won another grand final. Until Sinfield retires they are going to be a threat at grand final time but that's it.

I think it's a fair call to say they are the greatest. We could possibly say we are the most consistent of the SL era, but when it comes to winning the big prize, they have won it the most and they have done it with a generation of players very similar to how Wigan won it pre-sl. It's not 6 wins over 17 years it's been pretty much the same core squad that Leeds have brought through.

No doubt it would have been wholeheartedly appropriate had saints won it without finishing top

What rubbish. They have won the championship once more than we have, that is all. They haven't won the challenge cup but in fact have lost it three times on the trot plus more. They haven't come top as often as we have. They haven't won the double; they most certainly haven't done the treble. I think they are equal with us in the world club challenge wins? Not sure on that one though.

So no, they are not the greatest. They are presently the best team at winning the grand final but that really is it.

We have won it from second place already so what you say is meaningless.

I've read the embarrassing posts you made about graham so to be brutally honest anything you post is meaningless to me

Leeds have won it when there was a top 5, they have won it when there was a top 8. They just know that in a playoff system, the back end of the year is where you need to be aiming towards. I'm sure they would love to win more games and go out to win them, but they are not going to alter their fitness and training plans to have an even approach across the whole season. We saw how that did not work for Wire last year or Wigan this year. They both burned out short of the end of the season.

Even this year Tony Smith has been very obvious in backloading the season.

We were talked about by others as one of the great teams when we won the double in 2006, yet we had not made the GF since 2002, before that. Winning 6 GF's in 9 years is an amazing feat.

Then why are you replying to my posts?

Lots of people have doubts about Jammer's guilt so don't try and make out that I'm unique on that score. You're showing your desperation there.

I think you need to redifine what Leeds are, they are probably the best team ever in the Superleague Play Offs as they were pretty ordinary in the 27 games before the play offs.
Saints 2006 is probably the best performance so far they competed well in every game that season, won everything that was available, that has never been repeated.

Yeah i know, it's only a grand final, no biggie. They are easy to win............aren't they?

You've posted some ridiculous things in your time but this has to be up there with the best of them.

5 Grand Final wins in 6 years is a remarkable achievement in the modern day when you have 4 or 5 teams that could potentially win it. Sinfield, McGuire, Burrow and Peacock have an unbelievable mentality to repeat success after success in the Play Offs and Grand Final. I can't wait until them four retire because you'd be a fool to back against them in a Grand Final.

It's the champions that are remembered though, not whether they lost to salford on sunday afternoon in april, or got beaten by 30 points against saints in may or whatever.

Leeds have completly re-written super league history. Remember before 2007 only one team in sl history had managed to defend the title (you guys 99-00). Leeds have won it 3 times on the trot, and then won back to back super league titles again. That is unprecedented in the modern era.

If you look at the table, give leeds 2 league victorys against wigan sintead of the 2 losses and they are in the top 2. So they aren't as far away in the weeklys as people make out.

In a way Saints were oh so close to this kind of record, but yet so far.

Listen Tony, you really must listen when the "Messiah" speaks, otherwise we shall all be doomed

Yeah it just shows how fine the margins are.

On a different timeline saints could have had 3 or 4 grand final wins on the trot. Had it not been for Francis Meli

Oh to live in that parrallel universe.

Maybe there Jedward never happened.

Exactly. Let's have some credit for Leeds' incredible achievement. They have some amazing mental toughness.

And you still need to learn how to read.


Where did I say it wasn't? That's right. Nowhere. I said 'that's it'. People are assuming that winning grand finals is ALL there is. I am disagreeing with that point. Saints have not simply been the most consistent team. They did the treble in 2006 and only lost four games in one season. They then went on to win the world club challenge, win two more Challenge Cups, got to five more grand finals, won four league leaders shields on the spin, AND we had previously won Grand Finals and Challenge Cups in the Superleague era prior to that peak period.

So no, Leeds are not the best team in the Superleague era as they haven't achieved even the double yet. They have been good only at winning grand finals, with the odd league leaders shield and world club challenge thrown in. Winning six championships (one more than us) is indeed a tremendous achievement and nowhere have I said otherwise. However, this trend of Saints fans to big them up into an all-round best team each time they win the championship is wide of the mark.

Don't always agree with Saints Fan, but agree 100% on this one.

In terms of just the super league then yes they are the the best team winning 6 times overall and the sucsess they have had in the last few years with the squad they have is amazing. To say they are the best in the super league era is wrong as the term super league era covers every competition and over the course of the super league ere we more than match up.

It depends how you define it. Is it a particular team from one season, or the era of group of players spanning a few seasons? is it on trophies overall throughout super league or titles? Is it based on who has done the double, or the individuals within the teams and how they performed? All/most of the above?

Theres lots of different parametres. On balance you'd probably have leeds 2nd behind saints due to overall trophies. But leeds have won more titles now and I've already seen it mentioned in the media that they are the most successful super league team, due to all those titles.

Some of saints teams of the past are remembered for their flair and outrageous tries. I think in years to come this current leeds team will be remembered for it's unwavering belief and mental toughness. I've lost count of the amount of times they've been in sticky situations, where most other teams would fade and they've somehow found a way out of it.