Well my arguement is always that everything is relative so how strong or weak are we???

Saints --------- Wigan ------- Wire

1. Wellens ----- Tomkin--------Hodgson
2. Gardner ---- Charnley------Riley
3. Shenton ----- Goulding -----Bridge
4. Soliola ------- Carmont -----Atkins
5. Meli------------Richards-----Dog Boner
6. Hohaia-------- Finch---------Briers
7. Lomax---------Leuluai-------Myler
8. Perry --------- Prescott------Morley
9. Roby ----------Mcllorum-----Monaghan
10. LMS---------- Mossop-------Carvell
11.Puletua ------ Hansen-------Waterhouse
12. Wilkin ------- Hock---------Westwood
13.Flannery ------Oloughlin----Harrison
14.Laffranchi ---- Lima---------Higham
15.Flanagan ----- Fielden------Grix
16. Clough ------ Farrell--------Wood
17. Wheeler ----- Tuson--------Cooper
18. Magennis ---- Flower------ Blythe
19. Dixon -------- Marsh------- Ratchford
20. Gaskell ------- Roberts------Hill
21. Makinson ----- Lauai------- Tyroe
22. Foster -------- Dudson----- Solomona

Anyone below 22 in the Saints squad will struggle to get a game if we are honest so stopped at 22.
I could only fit 3 teams nicely so picked the top 2 from last year.

You can't compare thru squad numbers. It's got to be compared by positions.

Looking at that I think we have a stronger team then both wigan and warrington

Not sure if we are stronger in what is going to be our starting 13. However i believe we have more depth than either wire or wigan.

Trust me I started off doing it that way, but it just got messy. Is Wilkin a 2nd rower or a loose, is Makinson a Winger or FB. Same for Lance.

Waterhouse 2nd rower or loose. Grix etc etc.

It's ok with some of the players but some can play 2 or 3 positions. I jumped Solomona up the list for Warrington, as he has a rediculously high number. also Wigan insist on giving out 18 to the crowd. but basically they are the top 22 players in all 3 squads.

For me Wigan look the weakest over all, could be a case of all eggs in one basket, although we can't rule out a further signing.
We still look very stong in the pack, for me Wigan have the better backs now and Warrington have a very balanced side.

What jumps out for me is as the numbers get higher, because of last year saints have experience from 1-22. Not a player there can be called a rookie. Where as Wigan and Warrington look actually shallower in depth.

Feel free to re-arrange which ever way but people will then just argue whethe megennis is a prop or 2nd rower or loose. Is Makinson, Lomax, Wellens or Lance our first choice FB etc.

I think saints, wolves and pies basically pick themselves. Saints team certainly ain't hard to predict with odd exceptions.

I think it does dispell the myth that our squad is not deep enough though. Because of SL rules on homegrown players every squad has 8 or more players that basically are there to make up the numbers.

Prop wise we have Perry, LMS, Clough, TP, megennis
Wire have Morley, Carvell, Wood, Hill, cooper

So are we as short of a prop as we thought?

Perry - always injured

TP - can be lazy

LMS - I have serious doubts if he's good enough to be first choice prop.

Magennis - always injured

I can see us playing sia in the front row a few times next season

I think sia will eventually be a prop.

He as got the size and did a great job at hull kr last season

He played at prop in one match during 2011 and really impressed me there! He's got the aggression for it anyway. Pity we didn't have a few more aggressive players.

what would your starting 13's be then?

I do see him becoming a prop but would need to be spelled more if playing prop as he misses tackles when he gets tired.

This will prob be the softest saints pack I've seen since I first watched saints.

I wouldnt use him every week as a prop I would only use him as a prop if we had injuries

It looks fine on paper, apart from we're a man light in the front row given Jammer did the work of 2 for the last five years plus Laffranchi isn't a front rower.

But what you have to factor in is our recent record with injuries. It's not coincidence. We've carrying players like Perry and Wheeler who quite frankly shouldn't really be counted as they will spend more time injured than available and when they are fit they're always 'coming back' from one injury or another so they're never really fit.

Try taking the usual (Over the past 3 years anyway) 8 or 9 out and it doesn't look so nice. Particularly the front row where injuries to say LMS and TP would ravage us.

Quote ="St pete"Perry - always injured TP - can be lazy LMS - I have serious doubts if he's good enough to be first choice prop. Magennis - always injured'" Oh Saddened you've hacked Pete. LMS is as good if not better than Wood, Magennis or Cooper? True Perry was basically money down the drain last year, but so was Sia the year before, who we all seam to think was pretty good last year. As for TP Quote ="St pete"I know what ya mean. Tony p is a very rare style prop. He's massive, athletic, mobile and great hands. Graham will be a big loss tho.'" Quote ="St pete"I'd agree with that. The best signing for 2012 is TP.'" viewtopic.php?f=18&t=493870 He's not that lazy now give pete back his profile.

Quote ="St pete"Perry - always injured TP - can be lazy LMS - I have serious doubts if he's good enough to be first choice prop. Magennis - always injured'" Oh Saddened you've hacked Pete. LMS is as good if not better than Wood, Magennis or Cooper? True Perry was basically money down the drain last year, but so was Sia the year before, who we all seam to think was pretty good last year. As for TP Quote ="St pete"I know what ya mean. Tony p is a very rare style prop. He's massive, athletic, mobile and great hands. Graham will be a big loss tho.'" Quote ="St pete"I'd agree with that. The best signing for 2012 is TP.'" viewtopic.php?f=18&t=493870 He's not that lazy now give pete back his profile.

LMS is not a patch on wood.

I'm just worried age has caught up with TP. He didn't have great end of season but I'll give him the benifit of the doubt as he was just back from a pretty bad injury.

I'm just worried who's going to help with the work rate we've lost with Graham gone. TP and perry certainly can't get anywhere hear the levels of work Graham did.

At first I'd be inclined to agree, but by the end of the season, LMS was turning in some very good performances. I like wood, but I wouldn't swap him for Louie at the moment.

Regard the work rate, Jammer was a freak, but hopefully the collective will contribute as a whole to help make up for his departure.

I think that's a tad harsh:

Appearances:
LMS 24 Wood 24

Tries:
LMS 7 Wood 5

Metres:
LMS 2,672 Wood 2,631

Carries:
LMS 348 Wood 372

Metres per carry:
LMS 7.67 Wood 7.07

Tackles:
LMS 675 Wood 618

Offloads:
LMS 9 Wood 43

Tackle Busts:
LMS 31 Wood 18

There is really only offloads where Wood tops LMS statistically and there is an arguement that is caused by Warrington's more adventurous tactics.

LMS is a fine player who will be the one IMO to step up and fill some of the void left by Jammer. Certainly won't be Laffranchi as he's no front rower.

Who are you, and what have you done with Saddened?

It may only be one game, but Laffranchi was named at prop for the 2005 Grandfinal victory for West Tigers.

Paul Wellens played on the wing in an international versus Australia once too.

Laffranchi is the kind of player you can throw into the front row in an emergency, but he's going to have to bang on some timber to survive there all season.

Touche, but he obvisouly [ican[/i do it and I, like others, am tempted to believe he'll fit the "heavy" 13 role well.

Indeed he would. But what on earth happens when LMS and TP go off for a rest? Clough and Maggenis as the front row?

Clough will do us proud this year. Hopefully Perry will make some minutes.

I could imagine Magennis going one way or the other this year - either coming back with extra beef and making an impression, or being completely overtaken by the likes of Forster.