for wilds try when hodgson kick through. when he kick from about 35 out gardener and wild we virtually together. wild beat him to the ball by about 10 yards.. that was snails pace. he should be nowhere near super league

This is getting pathetic now.

what did I tell you guys months ago about Gardner. He ponses around looking pretty and does not do the hard graft as it showed in the World Cup the guy was a joke. Now he is getting found out. Lets face it a walking turd would look a decent wing man next to Gidley!

Gardner never beats a man and is often out of position in defence, this season especially, he has been shocking.

did he or did he not get skinned by wild? one word. yes or no

The problem for Gardner is he's always going to be held in comparison to Saints wingers of old like Sullivan, Hunte and even Quirk. Look, he does what's asked of him. It would be great if he could score eighty yard tries but in the grand scheme of things wingers aren't very important players these days.

Indeed, if I were to prioritise I'd probably put 2 and 5 at the bottom of the pile. The Aussies sussed this out decades ago. If you have a strong pack you can put donkeys on the wing and still be competitive.

this thread was more about his lack of pace. which i always thought he had a bit of.. obviously not after seeing that today

yes he did admittedly but every single Saints player on here is getting a pasting on here and its bang out of order.

This is one of our biggest problems, no pace at all in the side. We must have the slowest back line in Super League.

The Aussies have never needed to figure this out, they haven't had a donkey on the win for a long long time.

yes he did and he could not be d to bust a gut getting back. Its poor lads like Graham who i feel sorry for the same happend in the World cup Graham works his off and players like Gardner ponsing around not helping the work load.

I think there is something wrong with Gardner. He's never been the quickest in the world but if you look back at the try he scored in the semi against Huddersfield a few years back you can see he's not at the same level as he was.

I felt embarrassed for him as he chased after Wild for those two tries. He is struggling to run at all and would IMO be a mess if you made him run the length of the field. Has he got injury problems we aren't being told about?

Wello is also becoming a problem. His solidity was fine in years gone by and even now he is solid. But when the wingers and centres on the flanks are as pacy as my Nan it's becoming painful.

Wild has always had a good turn of pace. Scored an eighty yarder at Hull a few years ago.

Agreed.

They will have a quick back row with Wild and Gilmour next year, with plenty of cover for the centres to boot.

You missed the best one of recent times Darren Albert, quick in attack and defence.

I do agree its most probably down to priorities, how much salary cap do you spend on players who aren't involved a lot.
But to counter that argument how many games did Vainokolo win for Bradford?

Vainikolo was a freak. If you can sign a player like that great. But if you ask me to choose between a top prop and a top winger I'll take the prop every time.

Or if you are Saints you'll take neither and promote another child to do a mans job.

That's what the academy is for.

You don't win a thing with kids in rugby league.

If the club comes out and admits it's on a economy drive I'll support them in that, but if they are making out that we're spending up to the cap and doing everything in our power to WIN things I don't think they're doing a good job of it at the moment.

That might have been the model five, ten or twenty years ago, but it's not any more. There isn't enough room under the salary cap to sign top class (or even good) players in every position and so you have no alternative but to rely on your academy.

But we've not won SL in years and aren't winning the CC either this year so someone's model has fallen off the table.

I'd sell my left nad to see the St Helens RLFC salaries spreadsheet. Me thinks the Big Mac has missed a 0 from a figure somewhere.

We have no RIGHT to win every trophy. If we did the game would be dead. The truth is you're desperate to blame somebody because Saints lost. It's just so childish. We have a great crop of kids. We've got the best prop in the league. We have a massive (young) centre arriving next season. Add to that Pryce, Wilkin, Gidley etc.

I don't think we have a right to win, I just disagree that everything is rosy in our garden and I think we're massively overplaying the youth element of things.

We were always going to suffer with the retirement of Scully, Long and KC, sport does have cycles of dominance and IMO our's is now ending. You disagree and believe the inexperienced young players can raise the phoenix. I just think that is very unlikely to happen.

I never said everything in the garden is rosy. We absolutely need one, perhaps two good props next season or we could struggle. There's no point having a ruck of talented backs coming through if they're playing behind a beaten pack week-in, week-out.

We should have money available, but the possibility exists that any excess may have to be diverted to the new stadium temporarily. If that's the case we can't grumble because a new ground takes priority over everything.

And so it's a waiting game for now.