you never see saints winning at the death like that! Boooo hisss

More like wire knew they would be doing us a favour in putting Leeds 4 points adrift ... but no, they had to let em in at the death

warrington really need to learn that a game of rugby lasts 80 mins!

Wire where out on there feet at the end the match. A few in game injuries cost them.

Leeds do not impress me at all this season.

dito

I must say Leeds do seem to be pushing their luck with these last ditch wins, poor old wire cant grasp the notion of 80 min'ute ball games

leeds don't look as good as the last two years at all, i think their coach isn't anywhere near good enough for leeds, like hanley was here, win the SL with someone else's team but shown up the following season

I think it is worth mentioning though that Warrington have ran us close the last few times as well. They lead with 15 to go against us the other week. The Wire's star is certainly rising and I think Smith is the man to make them the team that breaks the Saints/Leeds monopoly. Maybe not this year but in the next two.

If Carvell hadn't lost the ball with 4 mins to go on halfway they would have done it, they were under siege after that, so much so that a shocking pass still gave Leeds a walk in with a two man overlap.

I was thinking the same about the Saints not being as good as they have for the past 2 years as well,time will tell if your coach is good enough for your club also

So are you now starting to agree with me that the game is more competitive but the standard at the top is slipping?

Would you prefer to go back to the days of 70-0 and 75-0?

75-0 on a hot sunny summer day vs the Goons in the derby, hell yes.

From a Wigan pov no, but we were injury riddled with a cr@p coach.

But I would like to see players of the ilk of Hanley, Schofield, Newlove, Edwards, Ward, Crooks, Offiah, Sculthorpe, Farrell etc in the game.

Players who could at least give the Aussies a game.

RG you are becoming more than boring and are cut from the same cloth as Brett Kenny on the cherry and e board.

Are standards slipping at the top??
Hard to quantify, and I say that for the following reasons:

1. In Saints case, were beset with injuries and youth is getting a chance, standards will surely slip temporarily as the kids will lack the consistency of the matured senior professionals.

2. Across the board it appears there is alot more english junior talent being given an opportunity because they are good enough. Internationally we must be looking healthier with the likes of Eastmond, Graham, Roby, Tomkins brothers, Mossop, Hall, Myler coming through.

3. Youre's and other regular reports on the junior development and academy games suggest and identify potential talent coming through at all levels in other clubs outside the so called big four. Harlequins, have produced LMS, Clubb etc and are developing a junior development structure.

4. Leeds I accept are certainly not playing at the top of their game at the moment, at the Wigan game Ive never seen the likes of Peacock etc fall of so many tackles and drop so much ball, however Ive no doubt this is just a temporary dip in form.

5. Any comparisons with yester teams is impossible, the game has dramatically changed and played at break neck speed, the line speed and intensity at the saints wigan derby was frightening and the play makers had no time at all in awful conditions and the lack of control by the referree at the ruck and 10m rulings didnt help.

6. Certainly in Saints case we are in a slightly transitional phase with bringing through a lot of junior talent, but it is an investment in the future. I certainly expect the likes of Eastmond, Roby, Graham, Dixon to show steady improvement each season, the same with Tomkins, Mossop, Flanaghan etc.

7. SuperLeague is progressing and becoming more intense but other clubs are finally getting their act together, Wigan and Huddsfield being a prime example.

I do agree that the style of rugby in a lot of games have become a slug fest but I cant remember the last time Saints played in decent dry conditions the last two summers have been appalling.

Is the competition improving? Yes

Are all teams showing steady improvement?
Yes, Cas, Huddfield, Wigan are good examples. Saints are still bringing through quality footballers but under the restraint of the SC. Other clubs are now also getting their acts together which is fantastic.

Are we seeing signs that we will improve internationally?
IMO yes, if we give the above players a chance. Smith already looks like hes got rid of some of the old tried and tested old guard!

Wouldn't we all!

I remember thinking after Bosc scored that fantastic two footer try the other week that we are pretty deprived of that kind of skill and creativity. Although we do have our skilfull players, there are few who would challenge the best down under.

I would agree that Leeds and Saints have slipped down a notch or two this season. It's a shame things have levelled out slightly downward and I don't know why that is.

I hardly think we've been electric either. Do be niave enough to think we wont be run close in the grand final again. After the past two grand finals i would take a close game. Besides I find a really close hard fought win is more satisfying than a 75-0 stuffing.

well apart from the wigan stuffing but you see my point!

The buzz at the end of the wire game a few seasons ago was electric when cunningham robbed wire hearts.

Do you think this may have something to do with the fact that these two teams supplied most of our world cup players who therefore have had no close season as such to reccuperate. Couple this with the fact that these two teams have contested all competitions to the end over the last few years and its no suprise that the have not reached the levels of former seasons. They must be knackered!

Saints and Leeds are not as dominant, however that is in part due to vast improvement by other teams.
Rather than two outstanding teams and a load of dross, we have two very good teams and then six or seven good sides. Hudds, Hull KR, Cas, Wakefield, Wigan are all tough to beat on their day.

It says a lot for me when teams like Warrington and Catalans with some very big name players in their squads are struggling to make the playoffs.