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3d plans mean little in the greater scheme of things. With modern CAD software anyone with an artists bent can create a wonder stadium.
Just look at the pretty pictures produces by Castleford, Wakefield and Salford in the past. Look behind those pretty pictures and it is/was just smoke and mirrors.
Whats people should really ask is, can i see the architects drawings?
With regard to Saints stadium, YES YOU CAN, you can see exactly what the Saints stadium will look like, down to the size of individual rooms and the purpose of rooms etc. You can look at detaild things like style of light fittings in the car parks. The species of trees and plants that are being planted, along with the actual building materials being used in the construction.
A 3d picture is just eye candy. It tells you very little, and is more of a PR stunt than anything substantive.
However human nature being what it is, most people want to see eye candy, rather than something with substance.
Just look on the council planning portal and you can see proper drawings there.
llpgport.oltps.sthelens.gov.uk:8 ... PKID=50095 |
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3d plans mean little in the greater scheme of things. With modern CAD software anyone with an artists bent can create a wonder stadium.
Just look at the pretty pictures produces by Castleford, Wakefield and Salford in the past. Look behind those pretty pictures and it is/was just smoke and mirrors.
Whats people should really ask is, can i see the architects drawings?
With regard to Saints stadium, YES YOU CAN, you can see exactly what the Saints stadium will look like, down to the size of individual rooms and the purpose of rooms etc. You can look at detaild things like style of light fittings in the car parks. The species of trees and plants that are being planted, along with the actual building materials being used in the construction.
A 3d picture is just eye candy. It tells you very little, and is more of a PR stunt than anything substantive.
However human nature being what it is, most people want to see eye candy, rather than something with substance.
Just look on the council planning portal and you can see proper drawings there.
llpgport.oltps.sthelens.gov.uk:8 ... PKID=50095 | |
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| Quote ="The Chair Maker"Whats people should really ask is, can i see the architects drawings?
With regard to Saints stadium, YES YOU CAN, you can see exactly what the Saints stadium will look like, down to the size of individual rooms and the purpose of rooms etc. You can look at detaild things like style of light fittings in the car parks. The species of trees and plants that are being planted, along with the actual building materials being used in the construction.'"
Is the architect who has produced those drawings the same one who will "over-see/design" the actual works?
I would imagine that the delay in naming the contractor could well be as negotiations over price have gone on to meet the required budget. The selected contractor will be responsible for the design and build of the stadium and I would imagine will be looking at extensive "value-engineering" even as we write.
As per usual I look forward to Satfish and Doughhead shouting me down (although never correcting me) but they obviously know more about these things than I do. |
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Amd if you had listend to Radio Manchester on Thursday night you would have heard our chairman say it will be of the highest quality, that doesnt sound like we are going for "value engineering" the finance IS in place the specs are drawn up and the plans ARE the final ones
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| Quote ="Ski"Lets just slap some sticks together in the middle of an unprepared bit of land and hope it all goes ok...'"
It would be great just to see the land being prepared. That, to me, would signal building work is actually happening. Alas, so far we have a roundabout, which is the council's baby.
I couldn't care less about 3D plans, although it seems that some people have gotten hung up on them.
I do care that when our club makes a statement concerning the stadium, the content of that statement is followed through. Like I've already said, Saints undermined my faith in the club to do that because they have made a number of statements which have not been followed through.
However, if the promised statement arrives this week and the promised work follows the week after, as promised, then my faith in the club's statements will return. Until then, for me, it's a question of I'll believe it when I see it. |
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| Quote ="Paul Youanal"
As per usual I look forward to Sadfish and Doghead shouting me down (although never correcting me) but they obviously know more about these things than I do.'"
We have corrected you many times, you just care not to have noticed my dear.  |
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| Quote ="Paul Youane"3D plans are a waste of money once planning has been approved plus with the architect no longer working on the project it would have been even more expensive to procure them.
Once the builder gets appointed I'm sure he'll get his architect to knock up some "artist's impressions".'"
I never read about any 3D plans, I always though the many public meetings were for fans to see a model of the new ground. |
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| Quote ="Paul Youane"Is the architect who has produced those drawings the same one who will "over-see/design" the actual works?
I would imagine that the delay in naming the contractor could well be as negotiations over price have gone on to meet the required budget. The selected contractor will be responsible for the design and build of the stadium and I would imagine will be looking at extensive "value-engineering" even as we write.
.'"
Show me a building contract that doesnt involve deciding on what the materials used will be.
The builders options to "value engineer" as you put it can be minimised by the strict use of contractual terms.
Please do not judge Saints by the standards that Warrington set in the construction of the Halliwell Jones. That really was a bargain basement build. |
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| Quote ="The Chair Maker"Show me a building contract that doesnt involve deciding on what the materials used will be.
The builders options to "value engineer" as you put it can be minimised by the strict use of contractual terms.
Please do not judge Saints by the standards that Warrington set in the construction of the Halliwell Jones. That really was a bargain basement build.'"
flat pack. |
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| Quote ="SaintsFan"It would be great just to see the land being prepared. That, to me, would signal building work is actually happening. Alas, so far we have a roundabout, which is the council's baby.'"
The infrastructure is necessary to the development. |
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| Quote ="Ski"The infrastructure is necessary to the development.'"
Absolutely. But it isn't the development itself. |
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| Quote ="SaintsFan"Absolutely. But it isn't the development itself.'"
You're really splitting hairs, aren't you? |
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| Quote ="Ski"You're really splitting hairs, aren't you?'"
No. There are two developments on that site: Tesco, and us. I presume they will both be using the roundabout? Therefore, in order for either or both developments to begin, the roundabout and entrance roads need to be completed, and that was the task of the council. That isn't a sign that our development is about to begin. It could simply be that the council are doing their part and that either Tesco is about to start work on their development or it could all go quiet again.
Not splitting hairs at all. Just stating the obvious really. |
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Saintsfan you are getting very boring now, the chairman stated that the finances ARE in place a contractor WILL be announced and the work WILL begin soon, what part of that dont you understand?
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| Quote ="Gruntfuttock"Saintsfan you are getting very boring now, the chairman stated that the finances ARE in place a contractor WILL be announced and the work WILL begin soon, what part of that dont you understand?'"
I understand what he said. I speak English, as he does. The only difference in that speech as opposed to others is that he stated a contractor has been appointed. We've had 'soon' before but it hasn't turned out to be 'soon'. And contractors were supposed to have been appointed by November last year, according to announcements last year.
You're getting boring too. You are repeating the same mantra without actually reading what I'm writing. My issue isn't with McManus. It's with the unreliability of Saints' announcements.
To finish: when it happens, my faith in Saints' announcements will be restored. Until then, I remain skeptical, even if it had been God Himself who had said those words. |
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| Quote ="Gruntfuttock"Saintsfan you are getting very boring now, the chairman stated that the finances ARE in place a contractor WILL be announced and the work WILL begin soon, what part of that dont you understand?'"
She doesn't have faith in his announcements  |
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| Quote ="SaintsFan"I understand what he said. I speak English, as he does. The only difference in that speech as opposed to others is that he stated a contractor has been appointed. We've had 'soon' before but it hasn't turned out to be 'soon'. And contractors were supposed to have been appointed by November last year, according to announcements last year.
You're getting boring too. You are repeating the same mantra without actually reading what I'm writing. My issue isn't with McManus. It's with the unreliability of Saints' announcements.
To finish: when it happens, my faith in Saints' announcements will be restored. Until then, I remain skeptical, even if it had been God Himself who had said those words.'"
To be fair you seem to be doing that too!! We all understand you don't believe the club at the moment.
One thing i do agree on is that its the council doing the infrastructure works etc.. But unless they believe that there are no problems with the project would they spend the money and time doing it? No of course they wouldn't, and Tesco can't open without providing funding to complete the stadium should any holes in the finances appear in between. |
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| Quote ="The Chair Maker"Show me a building contract that doesnt involve deciding on what the materials used will be.
The builders options to "value engineer" as you put it can be minimised by the strict use of contractual terms.
Please do not judge Saints by the standards that Warrington set in the construction of the Halliwell Jones. That really was a bargain basement build.'"
Having worked in construction for nearly twenty years, all the experienced gained in that time does not enable me to make any sense of those comments.
I would go further by saying you haven't got a bloody clue what you are on about. As of this time, with reducing borrowing and general fiscal tightening, value engineering is one of the key drivers to getting any scheme on site. The only 'contractual term' which prohibits change is the planning application drawings, which casts in stone the size, shape and general external aesthetics of a scheme. Everything thereafter is fair game. |
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| Quote ="Gruntfuttock"okay sunday update, and ebfore all the moaners start i Know nothing much has changed but it will OK?
'"
As the representative of this construction GF, am thinking the lack of action is all your fault! Watched kettles and all that, maybe no photos and everything will spring into life???? And is ebfore a bit like ebygum? Tis a long time since I lived oop north???  |
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| Quote ="Chris Saint"To be fair you seem to be doing that too!! We all understand you don't believe the club at the moment.'"
Good! So then perhaps people will stop coming back at me with the same statements then! And then I won't respond in the same way! But I'm not going to anyway because I can't be bothered.
Quote One thing i do agree on is that its the council doing the infrastructure works etc.. But unless they believe that there are no problems with the project would they spend the money and time doing it? No of course they wouldn't, and Tesco can't open without providing funding to complete the stadium should any holes in the finances appear in between.'"
They have to do it for Tesco as well as Saints. I don't know where the Tesco development is up to, do you? But if it's all ready to go then they will need the infrastructure works completed to enable them to get on to the site, won't they?
Tesco aren't providing any funding towards the stadium. Only Saints are funding the stadium. |
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| Quote ="Gruntfuttock"Saintsfan you are getting very boring now, the chairman stated that the finances ARE in place a contractor WILL be announced and the work WILL begin soon, what part of that dont you understand?'"
you forgot, a contractor has been appointed. |
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| Quote ="SaintsFan" Only Saints are funding the stadium.'"
Christ on a bike. And people go on about correcting me and then this gets past the "truth-police" of Doughead and Satfish |
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| Quote ="Paul Youane"Christ on a bike. And people go on about correcting me and then this gets past the "truth-police" of Doughead and Satfish'"
Was going to comment on that last night, but now I dont give a $hit, because they will be on site shortly building the "kingdom of heaven right here on earth"
besides Saintsfan seems to want the stadium even more than me.
And you spelt doghead wrong. |
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| Quote ="Gruntfuttock"yup its all my fault mate actually the builders are shy when i show up to take pictures they all hide until ive gone,so ive put the stadium build back about 6 weeks'"
But as you keep telling us all we should be positive and Believe in Big Mac, anyway it is going to be open and being used for matches next July?? |
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