Just a little frustrating that we are seemingly writing of season after season, looking forward to the next in the hope that the club sign recognised half backs. I just worry that we will be doing the same in 3-4 years time, meanwhile shelling out a couple of hundred quid each for a season ticket to watch a team with the same problems as three seasons ago.

It's alot frustrating! My season ticket renewal will be somewhat dependent on what we do in the market for next year. If we go into it with Wilkin as our scrumhalf and Hiho as standoff then I will be just selecting matches rather than paying for the whole lot up front.

In hindsight not re-signing Leon wasn't the smartest.

No, it wasn't, althought there were some serious question marks over his fitness at the time. I don't think he'd solve our current problems though. We need an organising, creative half back who can kick. Leon was great for us, but he did leave most of that stuff to Longy.

I agree on all points. He's a huge step up in class from Lance at #6, though.

Letting Smith go is looking like a huge mistake now. Leon/Gaskell and Smith in the halves would be a dream.

A fit Gary Wheeler would be nice, and has shown (admittedly in glimpses) that he can do a job there, but will that ever happen for more than a couple games?

Agree now and I said in 2007 gf we should have gone with smith when he got us to the final

That is the thing, Leon would give us little of what we are missing. He is a better player than most but he is not a playmaker he is a runner. With his injuries it was a good plan to let him go. He let Les Cats down in the playoffs with injury. I think the club made the correct choice, they just failed to bring in a suitable player as a replacement.

As I've said before, with the benefit of a time machine we'dve let Kyle sod off to Warrington, signed Smith on a long deal and let Wheeler clog up the treatment room of Wigan or Leeds instead. But letting Smithy go in favour of the other 2 was 100% the right call at the time and the fates just simply haven't been kind to us since. Pryce is a whole different matter though - it looked a questionable piece of business to let him go in favour of Lance at the time and has only looked a lot worse since. The rest of the league probably wouldn't see us for dust right now with Smith and Pryce in our #6 and #7 shirts....

Whilst Leon may not have been an organiser, he would have been the experienced head we needed last year. A younger guy could have played alongside him and took on the organising. Instead we had 2 younger fella's and one older fella with no halfback experience.

I was not a Leon Pryce fan, in terms of him being seen as a half, but as a devestating runner he could do things that we just don't have a capability for.

But Pryce is just part of a long line of downgrading the halfbacks.

I'm happy for people to disagree, but I'd say

Martyn to Hooper was a downgrade
Hooper to Pryce was a downgrade
Pryce to Lance was a downgrade

However, during that time, they all had Long to back them up and take on more and more. I think Long ended up doing more at Saints as time went on, to the point where you shut down long you shut down Saints. That was the issue in the end when we were losing Grandfinals. Long could carry Saints through a season. But as he lost his more skillful halfback partners then Saints became more long oriantated and in a final lining up against Sinfield, Maguire and Burrow, that's a 3 to 1 fight.

You put Scully in the team and suddenly we look like the Golden generation.

It's no one player that we have let go, it's been the gradually reduction in creative halves that has set us back.

That's why I say, you put Lomax and Roby back in the team we are top 4, take them out top 8. But to be top 2 with a fight of silverwear we need 3 pivots. It's the one thing Leeds have had for the last 6 years and what wigan had when they won on Leeds off year.

Did Hooper and Pryce not play in the same team? I seem to remember Hooper getting number 16 and playing in the back row/loose forward.

Overall I think that's pretty fair, although Pryce was by far a better stand off than Hooper, who was an excellent loose forward. It's worth noting also that Long was pretty poor in his last couple of seasons at Saints, once Scully was out of the picture he was left with all of the organisational responsibility.

I heard Smith was offered a deal at saints at the start of this season, he was all for signing it and then Wigan offered £12k more a year. Saints refused to match it and the rest is history. I'm not sure Smith is the answer and long term, I think we as a club need a better organiser, but most fans would give their right arm for any recognised 7 given the current situation.

It amazes me that a lot of our fans continue to underestimate Matty Smith

It gets a bit Muddy with Hooper.

I think the plan was Scully to 6, but with Scully's injuries (from memory) Hooper ended up doing quite a few turns at halfback. There was also the odd guest appearance from Lyon at half.

But if you take it as a trio

Long, Martyn, Scully
Long, Scully, Hooper
Long, Pryce, Hooper (scully doing guest apperances)
Long, Pryce, Flannery (At this point I think we can say the 3rd pivot was lost from Saints and we proceeded with only 2, although I'd argue Pryce was more a 13 than a 6, but that's by the by. Flannery was not a pivot)

Long + Pryce alone was not enough for the GF.

Then it all gets messy with injuries again but we get several combo's

Long Pryce
Long Smith
Smith Pryce
Eastmond Pryce
Eastmond Lomax
Lomax + random
Wilkin Wellens

It's the curse of seeing great players. Next to them everyone else looks distinctly average. But Smith would have given us 3 years of organisation and Eastmond could have run his pony show next to him. Then Lomax could have played off him. It may not have been in the same class as Leeds, but we would certainly have been more effective against the top 2.

Looking at what we have, can't we get that Random person back, it would be an improvement

I think you are missing the point. Underestimating him would be saying that he's not SL standard, which Im not.

Would I prefer to have Smith than Wilkin, Hohaia or Wello at 7, absolutely. Do I think Smith is a better organiser than Dobson, No. Do I think he has a better running or kicking game than Danny Brough, definately not. He would come in and do a job for us, but he isn't my long term preferred choice. It's clear that Saints don't think he is either.

The goons think differently.

im surprised smith is getting some credit here, as when wigan signed him alot of people thought it was hilarious. not a dig, just curious.

Because he's not as good as long in his prime, playing with players like Scully and Kieron and tommy Martyn .
I fear Matty will repay us in the same way longtime did to Wigan

I think I said at the time that Smith would do better than expected at Wigan because of their structure.

I think most players with the basic skill set to play #7 would do a good job for Wigan. The emphasis at Wigan is on the runners rather than the HBs, it's all about getting the ball to Tomkins or using a second-rower on the short ball. Smith/Green do this well as they have a decent passing game and have a solid kicking game. This sort of structure is perfect for any HB.

At Saints it's a bit different. We don't seem to have that 'robotic' structure that Wigan have - it's not a dig, it's anything but that as it's highly effective. Put Smith into our team and I think he struggles.

Wigan have set the bench-mark for the way they play their offence, and I think when we use Lomax more at FB we will start to see a different structure to our play with ball: look how good Wilkin looked vs Wire when he was playing off Lomax...compare that with the game vs Hull KR where he looked like a second-rower playing at #7.

I don't think we have properly seen Wigan play a run of games without Tomkins and I think that is such a positive for them as he is integral. Is it a coincidence that they rarely win without him? Clarke talked about it on the stats show and I think I can remember them playing 8 games or so without him and only winning a couple. We will see how good Wigan [ireally[/i are when he goes to the NRL or Union.

Lomax will be that player for Saints in the coming seasons and it will be about keeping him fit.

They have lost the last 6 without him and 11 out of 13 in total I think.

I agree with all of your post.

Basil's free from today, can he play 6?

Totally agree, they are totally my thoughts.