It's too early to compare these players. As well as Tomkins and Mossop being older they are also far more physically developed. I have always preferred Joel over his brother (nothing against Sam). Joel is just such a great runner of the ball and a really physical defender. I would have him in a Saints shirt in a drop of a hat.

I was just thinking about how a young (U23) Wigan/Saints/Wire team would paste a similar Yorkshire side. All the good young kids seem to produced on the right side of the Pennines at the moment. This is reflected in the current Super League table.

The Yorkshire clubs day (ok decade) in the sun could be coming to an end. Lets all unite and be happy about that.

True it perhaps a little unfair to compare Dixon and Ashurst with Tomkins and Mossop, due there age and relative experience. Someone who is very comparable with Dixon and Ashurst is Liam Farrel.

Not only is Farrel younger than both Ashurst and Dixon but he's also made far less first team appearances for Wigan than those two have made for Saints. Granted not many fans other than Wigan one's will have seen him play, but he is already looking a very accomplished backrower both in defense and attack. Dixon and Ashurst on the other hand are both very workman like offering a reasonable amount in defense but not so much in attack.'"

It's starting to pee me off, frankly. It's not like their kids are world beaters. Honestly. Wigan win some matches and the fans all think they can come on here behaving like they've won silverware. Meanwhile, they have a few injuries and they are beaten by the club at the bottom of the table! We have a few injuries and we beat ... cue Eddie Hemmings ... The Champions.

I think we are underating Dixon, he's got the potential to be a very good player. He does a lot of work puts in a solid performance and is excellent at reading the game. I reckon he will make it and move up another level to surpass Clough.

As I've said on a number of occasions - when Dixon & Ashurst fill out they'll be terrific players. Far better than Stankevitch & Jonkers ever were.

I hope you're right. However, around at the same time Stankevich & Jonkers came through, Gareth Price looked by far the better prospect in the reserves, but came to very little. As the song says - It goes to show you never can tell.

both look decent prospects, and hopefully they'll kick on.. you never can really judge youngsters for a year or two.. you can throw foster into that category too..

as for dixon keeping wilkin or flanno out.. i agree

Is this a forum dux?

Is it against the forum rules to say what I think?

IMO I would love dixon and ashurst to take wilkin and flannerys place in the backrow. Two young St helens lads instead of a hull and Aussie.

I also think it wouldn't be to hard to take there place in the backrow.

Listen dux, I don't agree with you that tony p is better in 2nd row than prop but I don't put silly little smileys on my posts.

Too true. Wasn't Bracek ahead of Graham at one stage, and Bannister in front of Clough?

Price lacked a bit of height and perhaps intestinal fortitude. He was great at bullying opponents in the reserves, but you can't pull that sort of stuff at SL level without being good. And Price just wasn't.

Jonkers was always a touch underpowered, even when he filled out. Stankers had a good football brain but lacked robustness in his game. Look, it's not rocket science. Both Dixon & Ashurst are big lads and whilst they aren't skittling opponents today they certainly aren't being outclassed. Somewhere within the next two years they'll have added a stone in weight and perhaps an extra inch or two in height. Instead of holding their own they'll be physically capable of taking the attack to the opposition.

I'm not sure on Bracek, but IIRC Bannister was only picked before Clough in the first team due to Clough being injured.

But Bannister actually had the skill, and ability. He took to the first team really well, and did really well at any club he was dispatched to.

He just had too many demons.

No, its not. My point was that you don't know whether Dixon's going to turn out as good as James Graham, or if Ashurst going to be the next Ste Bannister, but they need a fair chance, they've proved they can cope as squad memebers, now give them a chance to test their "intestinal fortitute" and see if they can develop further, and let them do it in peace, with bemaoning that they're not world beaters from the off.

I think you've misspelled pints at the end there

We DO know that they are - right now - and at the very least - COMPETITIVE at SL level. We also know that they will fill out by anywhere up to a stone and a half in the next eighteen to twenty-four months.

Yes. There are no guarantees in sport - but there's a good chance that "COMPETITIVE" + extra physicality = MORE competitive. And that can only be good for us.

I think we're agreeing, aren't we?

whose production line? not yours. he only moved to the st helens teams when he was 15, after establishing himself at warrington, had he not been such an avid saints fan, he would most likely have stayed at warrington.




sorry to burst your bubble, but andy is from warrington, his dad is from salford! neither of these make him from st helens!

Although he is saints through and through, im very good friends with him as i grew up with him, playing against him whilst he was at crosfields, and with him at warrington.

as many of you have said, he is a great player, or if not yet, then he will become, hes very solid, and will give everything for the club he supports. i was speaking with him last year and asked him whether hed consider coming back to warrington, should he not start to see saints first team action, and he said he rather stick it out and fight for his place. so you can guarantee an improvement from him, if he isnt making himself a first team player already. he will do in years to come!!!

He isn't off the Saints production line because he only moved to the St.Helens teams when he was 15? That is bemusing.

What the frigg does Andrew Dixon have to do with WWE?

Both Dicko's parents were born & bred in St Helens. His Nans, Grandad's,Aunties, Uncles and cousin all still reside there.
He joined the St Helens scholarship when he was 11, so I think you could say that both Warrington & St Helens have had a hand in his development, but predominantly St Helens.

I watched the Leeds game back last night and Dixon didn't just cope, I thought he defended manufully and threatened in attack. He's got good feet for a 2nd row, as well.

The thing with Ashurst and Dixon is, I don't think they look that big. I don't know if they have deceptive builds, whether our kit makes our players look slim or whether they do actually lack in size.

A quick review on the saints site shows

Ashurst 186cm 90kg
Dixon 183cm 94kg
[iand to compare[/i
Jon Wilkin 185cm 95kg
Chris Flannery 186cm 100kg
Tony Puletua 192cm 110kg

So, if Mugwump is right and the young lads will be able to put on another stone and a half (which is pretty much 10kg), then they'll at least have the physical size of Flannery.

The information on the website is incorrect, it hasn't been updated for years, you will probably find that the kids information hasn't been updated since they were 16

I said they'll put on anywhere UP TO a stone-and-a-half. Some kids might only push the stone limit. Others higher. Depends on the build, genetics, diet, training regime and a whole host of other factors.

The only certainty is they (as well as Eastmond, Wheeler, Lomax etc.) WILL be considerably bigger in two years.